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In this inspiring episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan sits down with Accessibility Commissioner Christopher Sutton to explore how his lived experience of deafness, foster care, isolation, and later receiving a cochlear implant has shaped his leadership and passion for system-wide change. He reflects on being told “no” throughout his childhood and how supportive parents, mentors, and his own determination pushed him to become a TV anchor, an entrepreneur, and a policy leader who now works to ensure that “other little Christophers and Donnas” grow up with fewer barriers and more role models. Drawing on his education at Gallaudet and the Ivey Business School, he explains how combining governance training, public policy expertise, and lived experience enables him to bridge communities, convene tough conversations, and embed human-centered accessibility into real-world decision-making.
Donna and Christopher also delve into his time leading Wavefront Centre through the early days of the pandemic, keeping essential interpreting, audiology, and deafblind services running while pushing governments and broadcasters to make public health information accessible with sign language, captions, and clear communication. He describes the Wavefront headquarters’ Rick Hansen Foundation gold-certified design, where acoustics, lighting, wayfinding, hearing loops, and “deaf-friendly” open sightlines were co-created with people who have lived experience, an example he believes large federal entities can and must emulate. From unpacking the proactive, enforcement-focused mandate of the Accessibility Commissioner within the Canadian Human Rights Commission to his work on British Columbia’s accessible service delivery standard and his advice to younger generations on self-advocacy, confidence, and getting involved, the conversation underscores that accessibility is not a “nice to have” but a shared responsibility and a fundamental condition for a barrier-free future.
TRANSCRIPT
Podcast Commentator: Greetings.
Podcast Commentator: Donna J Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA, invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, site loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I am Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments. In November of 2010, I won the Landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty’s Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I’m not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio, you’ll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today’s conversation, let me shine a spotlight on today’s guest, a changemaker whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. Christopher Sutton, I’d like to welcome you to my Remarkable World Commentary. Welcome.
Christopher Sutton: Thank you. Donna, it’s such a pleasure to be here. And thank you for your your invitation today. And really, it was such a pleasure to hear about your background and your experience because you have done such remarkable things for Canadians across the country. And I want to thank you for that.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much. Now we met. When did we meet? We met in 2024, I believe, at the Air Canada Advisory Committee meeting in Toronto. I believe we did.
Christopher Sutton: Donna, I think we were late before that. I think we met each other at circles in in Gatineau, Quebec, working on Elections Canada stuff. But we have reconnected. Yeah.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, I do apologize. We did meet through Elections Canada. That’s right, I apologize. I’m sorry.
Christopher Sutton: So no need to apologize. Donna, you meet with so many people each day. But I remember working together with you at Elections Canada and some really great stuff. And just hearing about the insights and the and the perspective that you brought to the table and, and the community that you brought to the table. So really been able to follow and work with you over the years and know that we’re making a difference in our respective places in the world.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, I do remember and I enjoyed working with you then, and I was kind of sorry to see you leave the Air Canada Committee, but you got bigger things to do now. And we’re looking forward to having you you know, continue to make a difference. So let’s get started. And to begin, which experiences from growing up with hearing loss and receiving a cochlear implant in 2008, most shaped your leadership style and how do they guide your decision as accessibility commissioner today?
Christopher Sutton: Well, thank you for that question, Donna. And I, I think there are many things that I could talk about here as an individual. I grew up in a very small and isolated community, and when people meet me, they’re often surprised learning about my story. Like all of our stories, we’re we have very unique journeys. And those journeys helped shape us to who we are today. I was a born and put in foster care. I was in foster care for many years before I was adopted. I don’t have much memory of that point, and I don’t actually have a lot of memory until I was a little bit older of a child. But I will talk about how, as a child, remembering there was no one else like me, that I was alone. I didn’t see other people with hearing aids or or that had support. I grew up in a very, very small, isolated community, but at the same time, I remember that being in an isolated community, I was afforded a lot of privilege as well. I had a great support. My, my my parents, especially my mother, really, really encouraged me to be the full individual that I was meant to be. When people talked about, oh, that’s a barrier, Christopher can’t do that because Christopher’s deaf or or or people struggle to understand who I was. My parents always instilled that you will do whatever you want to do and even higher. So when I was young, I wanted to be an anchor on TV, and I remember marching up to the to the, to the community channel newsroom, and they had a call up for anchors and people to volunteer on the community channel, and I love.
Christopher Sutton: I’m fascinated by current events. I love news, I love media, and really having the opportunity to be a part of that was so exciting. But I remember my mom telling me that her friend who ran the community channel called her and said, Christopher can’t do this. He stopped. He was able to read the news. He won’t be able to hear an interview story. He won’t be able to do all this stuff. Maybe we can have him, like, work in the background and help with editing and stuff like that. And my mom said, but you know, Christopher, you know that he wants to be in front of the camera. He’s going to be in front of the camera. And soon enough, Donna, I was in front of the camera, not one night a week, but three nights a week. But you know something, Donna? That wasn’t the only circumstance where I had to break down barriers to show that people with a disability can do whatever they do. In my circumstance, the only thing I couldn’t do was here was often being told I had labels, and because of those labels, I had to fit it to a category. I was deaf, so I wasn’t going to be able to read.
Christopher Sutton: I wasn’t going to graduate from high school or even junior high school. The occupations that were set out for me were these occupations and I was fired. I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to own a hotel to I wanted to be a chef. I wanted to all these other things. And people kept saying, no, no, no, no. But each time a no came, I crossed that bridge and sometimes crossed it a little bit further. And I have to say, the nose and the you can’t, you can’t give me the strength and the courage and and all those people that supported me to really get to where I am today. So I have to say, what really inspires me is Wanting to be able to make sure that the other little Christopher’s, the other little Donna’s, the other little Michael’s and Jane’s and Paul’s don’t grow up with the same barriers, don’t grow up not having having role models and and people they can look up to, and people that have paved the way so that they can have a better, better life. I really want to people and people with disabilities, especially to feel connected, to see themselves as part of the change. And I really, really, really want to make sure people are not isolated and alone. And that really has been a driving force, force behind the work that I do and my passions that that get me up each day.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think this is great. You know, I, I couldn’t agree more. I really couldn’t. So you earned a BA from. And I hope I’m having this pronounced correctly. Gallaudet. That.
Christopher Sutton: Gallaudet. Gallaudet depends from.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. And an MBA from Ivy along with governance training. How did that mix of education prepare you for policy oversight and enforcement at the Canadian Human Rights Commission?
Christopher Sutton: Yeah, that’s a really another great question, Donna. And I think as I just shared with you, I’ve always been very headstrong and I had real ambition and goals. And as I said, I’m very lucky that my parents raised me to believe that barriers could be overcome and that anything is possible if I work hard and I apply myself and I and I am a believer and firm believer. Continuous ongoing education I currently just finished up some some training on mediation and other things because I believe that we can never stop learning, and learning is as a responsibility we have to ourselves. So whether it was my dream of being a news anchor or or just being a journalist, making a difference in people’s lives was something that I really wanted to do and something that drives me each day. I’ve been very fortunate. I know as a person with a disability, and to be able to have the career that I have today. I know that so many of my friends and colleagues have not had the same benefits. They’ve not been able to get the same educational experience or, or, or educational opportunities. And I’ve been very privileged and I and I think those, those role models, I think those those sponsors and so many people that put faith in me and encourage me because that encouragement is what led me to be here. But right now, in this role, one of the things I’d like most is to be a bridge for people, bringing people together to figure out how we can achieve a more accessible Canada together.
Christopher Sutton: Donna, you know, from our work together, I love to have dialogues. I love to bring organizations together, bring people together. I like to look at the big picture. I like to say, okay, this is the barriers we’re facing today, but how can we break down those barriers? How can we tap into the different challenges, different expertise and experience of individuals? I’m very passionate about public policy. Very passionate about system designs and organization and management. But I’m also very passionate about the lived experiences and and the different barriers that we face each day and how we can come together to really put a human element and a human centric side of it to really make people’s lives better. So I’d like to say, like, I went to Ivy Business School, one of the best business schools in the world. I’ve done some fantastic governance programs and, you know. Very, very few people at my time in those programs identified with any of the diversity that I talk about in myself, like coming from a small, isolated community working in a not for profit sector being an individual with, with a disability. And in these organizations and these programs, I went these are full of executives from the large banking sectors, from from media, from, from many different organizations.
Christopher Sutton: And often I was the first person they met in a leadership role that understood the language they spoke, but also had a disability. So I often was able to talk about how diversity, inclusion and accessibility should be and must be understood in the broader business and policy context. And I think my, my colleagues in those programs really appreciate that. They really appreciated that. They got to know an individual. They got to know firsthand about the barriers that I experience and how we how we work together to overcome some of those barriers. And I made some awesome friendships, and I and I know that I’ve really been able to help influence how people see people with disabilities. But also at the same time, I’ve also led organizations and businesses myself, and I understand firsthand the realities and pressures that come with running a business, managing people, and implementing compliance. And that experience really has helped me translate policy goals into practical, workable approaches. And the realities that that organizations must deal with when we’re looking at the Accessible Canada Act or other regulations out there. So I think I’ve been very fortunate to be able to have this academic training, this global exposure and real world leadership experience has given me a unique perspective. How I can help move this file at the Human Rights Commission and my work as a commissioner at the Commission.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think this is terrific, really. Now, you took the helm at Wavefront Center on April 1st, 2020, right as the pandemic began. What did that chapter teach you about resilience, accessible communication and service continuity that you are applying at the core?
Christopher Sutton: So, Donna, it feels like hundreds to hundreds of years ago. But you remember just six years ago, five, six years ago, we were hearing about this coronavirus. We were hearing about about this disease or illness that was going around and people were getting sick. And it’s hard to believe it’s only been five years, and we’ve gone through a profound, profound amount of global changes since. But a lot of people don’t realize on the day the global shutdowns happened, I actually was moving from Ottawa to Vancouver to start a new role. I actually was supposed to start the role a little bit later, but because of the shutdowns, the board of directors said, we really need someone to come in with the leadership, with the ability to handle these complex situations, to help guide us and our business through this time. So I just moved across the country, joined a completely new organization, knowing no one in this city and suddenly finding myself navigating a landscape where conditions change daily and sometimes by the hour. Leading to that amount of uncertainty taught me what real resilience looks like. Staying focused on people making decisions quickly yet compassionately, and creating stability in an environment where, frankly, there was no stability. Waypoint center was named an essential service by the Government of British Columbia. It provided essential services like sign language interpreting, audiology, employment services, deafblind intervener services. There are so many programs and services, and one of the other things that provided was connectivity. It brought connectivity to a community that was already isolated, that already faced so many barriers and really had to bring the human element to the front and center.
Christopher Sutton: Not only were we dealing with uncertainties in the world. The team that I had to leave were coming in and supporting people that depended on us for communication access, health services and community connection. And I had to lead through constant change while ensuring the staff supported safe and valued, but also ensuring that the services to clients relied on each and every day. As a situation, change was there for them that when they needed an interpreter, there was an interpreter at that medical appointment, when they needed to excuse me, when they needed an audiologist to fix their hearing aid, or for some people, because they needed to attend a funeral of a loved one that passed away from from Covid 19, we were there for them. But also at the same time, accessible communication became a defining lesson in those early days. Public health information was not accessible. It was not accessible in sign language. Captioning was very poor and and so many communities missed out on life altering and life saving information that was being provided. We had to change that. And I and I was so fortunate. I reached out to contacts, whether they were in the Prime Minister’s office or broadcasters, and really brought forward educating governments, media and other organizations about the importance of accessible communication. And that really has changed. What we see now is more global, widespread acceptance of ASL interpretation or lsq interpretation and other accessibility features that we see.
Screen Reader: Notification from.
Christopher Sutton: During during emergencies and other times. But if you go to other places in the world, you actually see these for cooking shows and whatnot.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Yeah.
Christopher Sutton: But we also had to build new partnerships. So we had to look at the programs and services that we traditionally delivered, and we had to offer new ones. The community and the world we lived in was changing, and it was so important that we designed our program so that our community was connected, so that businesses were able to provide accessible information so that government had a service provider to turn to. So it really why it was. A very difficult point for us. It also allowed the organization to become much more stronger and sustainable and create a national name for itself. So I take all these lessons each and every day in my work at the HRC. They shape how I approach policy oversight, accessibility with a deep understanding of what communities need in real time, how essential clear communication is, and how important it is to lead with both humility and decisiveness. Suppress.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I can hear it in your voice. The passion. You know we need. We need this type of passion, this type of leadership. If we and I say we, I mean, our communities are, you know, expected to move forward because these are difficult times and the landscape is changing dramatically every single day.
Christopher Sutton: It is, it is.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. So wave of friends headquarters achieved Rick Hansen Foundation accessibility certified goal within 96 out of 100. Which design choices made the biggest difference? And how should large federal entities translate this lesson into their own buildings?
Christopher Sutton: Yeah, I am very proud of the work that and that we’ve done. And I actually have to say like when I, when I was being headhunted and recruited to take on the role of CEO at Wavefront Centre, it was moving to, like I said, an area that I never set foot in. Like I’ve been to Vancouver maybe twice in my life, and I’ve always called myself an East Coast type of person. You know, I like the the faster pace of life in the East Coast. My friends were here, my family were here. But I was inspired by the bold action that the board of directors and the staff and the community wanted to make, like Waypoint Center’s head office was very carefully and intentionally designed to ensure that it was the highest rating accessible building in North America. They didn’t set out on the goal that, oh, we want to get this rating. We set on the goal of saying, this is what our communities need. Our communities need this so that they can be in a fully inclusive environment where it doesn’t matter if you’re you’re a person with a disability, if you’re someone that’s aging, whether you’re a person with vision loss or hearing loss or deafness, whether you’re someone that that is short, whether you’re a child. They want the organization and its purpose built facility to be completely barrier free and to be a model. Frankly, I, I’ve gone to so many presentations over the years where I would meet with architects, would meet with designers, meet with banks, meet with other organizations, and say.
Christopher Sutton: If Wavefront Center could do this, a small, little, tiny, not for profit organization regionally and in Vancouver, and they were able to make the investments to include the community, to look at design practices to look at best practice from the CSA, from the building code, from. From what we’ve saw in other jurisdictions like at Gallaudet and took those standards and elevated them even higher. If we can do it, anyone should be able to do it. There is no excuse that a regulated entity that has millions and billions of dollars of profit cannot do the same. There’s no excuse whatsoever. They also have to say the success of the project came from involving people with lived experience directly in the design process, in the build process, in every decision around acoustics, lighting, wayfinding, everything was shaped by the real needs of individuals and not by the assumptions and not necessarily by the professionals and and individuals who would say, well, this is what this group needs, but was actually connecting with people with lived experience to understand those experiences firsthand. Obviously, Waypoint Center serves people that are deaf, blind, and hard of hearing. So acoustics became a major role. We wanted to make sure for individuals that were deaf, there was a lot of ability to be able to communicate with using sign language. So a lot of glass, a lot of open spaces, spaces that were called deaf friendly, where you can move freely and not have to worry about hitting someone.
Christopher Sutton: We also want to make sure that people that use hearing aid and other technologies, that oral cast and and loops and, and systems built in place. So no matter where you were, you were able to listen without barriers. We also have the HVAC system in the building, what normally is around 75 to 80dB in most office settings, reduced to 35 to 40dB, which means a person that was hearing that does not have a hearing loss could actually be more comfortable in the environment. But someone like myself that uses technology didn’t have the interference of the background noise constantly. Donna, I can go on and on and on about this. And if any of your viewers are in Vancouver, I. I highly encourage you to reach out to a front center. They would be happy to give you a tour of their presentations. If you go to their website, they have diagrams. So there’s so much, so much effort and pride put into that organization. But some of the key lessons, because you ask about key lessons that I would provide large federal entities, is that accessibility must be integrated from the onset, every stage, from early planning stages, right up to the design to the implementation, to the opening. But you also have to be willing to adapt when when the building opens, there’s going to be flaws, there’s going to be things that need to change and code change as well.
Christopher Sutton: When Waypoint Center opened its head office, head office in the newer locations we’ve opened since then, we’ve taken feedback we’ve received from the community to make sure those new facilities were even much more accessible. I would also say an important takeaway is accessibility features benefit everyone better. Q6 good lighting, barrier free circulation, clear communication systems experiences not only for the clients, but for the staff, for visitors, for everyone, so that they can have a barrier free, barrier free experience. And as I said, I really think the most important lesson is forward thinking at all levels of an organization. You need your leaders. You need your board. You can’t just have frontline staff pushing this. You need people at every organization championing accessibility, Championing these best practices. Because if you don’t, we’re not going to get the change that we need to drive that lasting change. So I have to say, there’s so much we can do together. And wavefront took a dream and they made it into a reality as they knew the benefits would have far greater rewards than just meeting this, this wonderful recognition of being the most rated facility in North America, but just being a place where you would see the smiles of families, hearing stories of people being able to enjoy the facility and go to any facility that they weren’t able to go to and the experience they had there.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It must have been difficult for you to leave wavefront and assume your new role. Was it?
Christopher Sutton: Well, Donna, I have to say, like I, I’m a person that likes challenge, like, you know, as an ambitious A-type personality and as an individual like, I really appreciated my time at Wavefront Center. It gave me so many lessons, so many teachings, and it really it really gave me the experience I needed for myself to be where I am today. But at the same time, I know that I’ve been recognized and I and I recognize for being able to bring people together, bringing organizations together, and really to be able to have some of those difficult dialogues. And I’m not scared to have difficult conversations and I and coming to the commission while leaving that beautiful facility that was so barrier free. It’s been a fantastic experience here. When I was onboarding, they asked me what I needed. They asked me what technology I needed to support me, how how I need to be engaged in decisions and everything I’ve said. They made. Made. They made happen. And I have to say, they’ve been a fantastic organization. And I don’t I wish every Canadian could see the work that’s done here, because the work sometimes is quite slow. But the impact and the progress that is happening to impact the lives of every individual in this country is just astonishing. And and I really think the, the open arms and, and my colleagues here because they’ve been fantastic and it’s really made up for some of the things that I miss that waypoint centre. But the people and and just really being leaders and making sure that my experience has been positive has been really, really fantastic.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You shared British Columbia’s accessible, accessible services delivery Every standard committee which elements of that standard map most directly to national expectations under the under the Accessible Canada Act.
Christopher Sutton: Donna, you know what I like you I was I was one of those individuals and organizations that worked hard to ensure the Accessible Canada Act was, was passed and made, made into regulations and and received Royal assent and spent many years advocating for, for for this this wonderful piece of this wonderful piece of legislation that really was groundbreaking. It created like this foundation and built something so that we can move forward with it and move forward with the times, Unlike other jurisdictions where they have thousands and thousands and thousands of pages. Thy shall, thy shall not. Da da da da da. We’re actually able to build regulations that meet the times of today. One of the things that really inspired me after the passage of the Accessible Canada Act is that other jurisdictions like British Columbia, Manitoba other provinces quickly adopted their own accessibility legislation. And they really looked at this at the, at the principle of the Accessible Canada Act. Nothing without us. And I really think that that accessibility legislation was groundbreaking because it opened the minds that opened the ears and really open the hearts of our communities. And Canadians didn’t want to sit back and say, no, we this is not a priority. It was a priority and it is a priority. So you know what? Like being a part of the work in British Columbia was very, very inspiring. They have a fantastic team that works at the Accessibility Directorate. They’re a very small but mighty team. And and they did things differently than I was used to doing in Ontario or even at Accessibility Standards Canada. And the way they involve the community and building up and building their standards.
Christopher Sutton: And the consultation and feedback has been incredible. Like I have to say, the work that was put on the feedback process of the service delivery standard and the amount of feedback they got back was incredible. I would also just say the BC drop standard and the Accessible Canada Act emphasize barrier free access to information and communication. That means that ensuring that our websites, documents, customer service channels are accessible in formats that people with diverse abilities can use, whether it’s plain language, screen reader compatibility captioning, or sign language interpretation. There’s also a strong focus on training and culture change. The Accessible Canada Act requires federally regulated organizations to build accessibility into their operations, and the BC draft standard references that by requiring staff to be trained in disability awareness, inclusive service delivery, and that’s not about just putting a new policy out there in your HR handbook. That’s about accessibility into everyday practice and not treating as an afterthought. And Donna, you and I both know when we embed accessibility intentionally into something, it benefits everyone. And I also think that both the the provincial legislation, the federal approaches recognize that accessibility is about designing and co-designing with the disability community at each and every step. We need to make sure that the community is involved with this process, and the experience of people with live, diverse experiences is what’s going to change and really push the change that we need in this country to make sure that we’re barrier free, whether it’s 2040, 2025, 2050. But those are just timelines and dates. It’s making the change that we need today so that the future will be barrier free.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I guess we got to keep pushing for more people to be convinced that accessibility is simply not a nice to have. It is a must. It is it. It benefits not just our community benefits everybody. Right.
Christopher Sutton: Yeah. Like when I think of like I saw a commercial not too long ago, I don’t know if it was a new commercial or something relatively older, but I just remember like how, how it showed how, what we would just say is simply as a door opener that was built and designed for a person with a mobility device, how it helps the package delivery driver, how it helps a parent with a child in a in a in a stroller, how it helps someone that’s using a bike or someone with a temporary disability, something that was designed for our community has created tremendous benefit for all. I don’t know how many times I go to a building, and I actually just see someone hitting that button. I actually never intentionally hit the button to open the open the accessible door or the kick the door open, because I’m always worried that I might be the one that breaks it. Yeah, the one that really needs it won’t be able to use it, but it’s it’s just people really have come, I don’t want to say dependent on it, but it’s just become the norm for people.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: For listeners who may not know the structure, what is the Accessibility Commissioner’s mandate inside the Canadian Human Rights Commission, and how does it interact with the traditional human rights complaints process?
Christopher Sutton: Yeah, Donna, that’s actually another excellent question. You know what the the Accessible Canada Act brought three new separate organizations or individuals into the accessibility thing. We have the accessible the Accessibility Standards Canada, and they work on developing standards. We have the chief accessibility officer who is advising the minister on issues related to accessibility and keeping a pulse of the community. And then you have the accessibility commissioner, who really is my responsibility is to ensure compliance of the regulations and enforcement of them. And and it wasn’t a mistake that they chose to house the accessibility Office of the Accessibility Commissioner within the Canadian Human Rights Commission. The Commission has a broad mandate to promote and to protect the human rights, including disability rights. In addition to being an accessibility commissioner, I’m also a member of the. See, a lot of people don’t know that I get to wear two hats. I wear 4 or 5, but at the commission I wear two hats. I’m a full time member of the commission and can and render decisions and hear about human rights complaints and barriers and and also the accessibility Commissioner and many of your listeners. And you, Donna, know that the HRC has a mandate to deal with complaints of discriminations in federal jurisdictions Historically, those complaints have been mostly around disability issues. And as the Accessibility Commissioner, I am excited to work alongside my colleagues at the Commission to help move us from being a reactive, complaint based system to a human rights system that’s proactive as well. So what’s different about underneath the Accessible Canada Act is that we are actively out there working with federally regulated organizations and asking them to be proactive.
Christopher Sutton: What are the barriers in your places of work? What are the barriers for your employers? What are the barriers for your clients so that they can proactively address them so that we don’t even get to a stage where we actually have complaints, because organizations will be identifying and addressing the barriers and and solving those barriers Years before an individual has to come and follow a complaint. Since since the Accessible Canada Act has come into force, there’s been a lot of work going on at the commission. This was a very new mandate, and it was a very new shift for the Commission. The commission was used to getting complaints that were reactive. We had to build a team. My team has had to work closely to ensure federally regulated organizations in Canada know about their obligations under the Accessible Canada Act and its regulations. We’ve had to meet with community and advocates to learn about their experience, to take that back, to inform our work, and we developed a wide range of compliance and enforcement tools. That includes a mechanism to deal with complaints if necessary. So the last several years has been so much activity going on at the commission to build this program so that we can be active and we can be ready to take complaints. But we don’t necessarily want complaints. We really want to make sure that organizations identify the barriers and identify how to create solutions to overcome those barriers, so that we can live in communities and can live, and hopefully our grandchildren and great grandchildren can look back and never understand the word barrier, because it’s never existed for them.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I guess we’re in Two Hats for you is quite an interesting I wouldn’t say challenge, but adventure, would you say?
Christopher Sutton: Well, I would say. An appreciation. Because you know what? As I mentioned, the some of the largest number of complaints we get are based on disability and being the accessibility commissioner, I get to work with organisations to make sure we can identify those barriers and make sure that they’re not barriers. But I guess get to also where that other side, where I can hear the complaints and the discrimination that individuals faced and be able to understand firsthand some of those complaints, but not only just in accessibility and disability, but also in the areas of race, sexual orientation and gender on, on, on so many diverse issues and and people that know me know that I am passionate about human rights. I’m passionate about all of these areas. So I have to say, when I was appointed to this role and I found out a part of that role, I can exercise the right to be also a full time member of the commission. That was like the icing on the cake, Donna. Like, I get to listen to accessibility stuff and champion change, but I also get to be involved in another area that I’m very passionate about as well.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I can hear it in your voice, and, you know, I think we really need to double down on all of this and we really need to, you know, push more awareness, push the importance of this. So, you know.
Christopher Sutton: And, you know, Donna, I you and I both know and you have a little bit more experience than I have. You’ve been a trailblazer and so many other my role models and and inspiration that that make me excited, not only excited but give me the passion to get up each day so I can carry the change and the torch that we’ve been doing this for years and years and years and years, and we’ve been talking about the barriers and talking about the barriers. We’ve been on this journey for a very long time, and I don’t want to excuse the federal entities or businesses, but their journey is a little bit newer, and we need to make sure that they understand firsthand about the barriers. They need to include people with disabilities to understand about those barriers so they can make the changes. But we have to work together. We can’t do this alone. The disability community can’t do this alone. Governments can’t do it alone. Regulated entities can’t do it alone. Communities can’t do it alone. We have to come together to do this together. We cannot come from one side only. And if we don’t come together as a community working collaboratively, we’re going to continue to face these barriers. So, Donna, your passionate advocacy, the work that I’m doing, the work of so many of our colleagues each day is so critical. But we also have to extend a little reach and include others because that’s what’s going to drive that change.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now the clock is winding down. But I would like to ask you this question. What words of wisdom do you have for the younger generation? How can they continue in our footsteps? How could we ensure that their future is a better future than what we’ve had? What can we do? What can they do?
Christopher Sutton: You know, Donna, I, I think about that question often. And you talked about being a role model and a mentor. That’s something that I, I aspire to and something that I’ve also taken time to do. I think role models and and And visibility is so important because we’ve been invisible for so long. And I don’t think the younger generation, generation Expect? Or do they believe that they’re going to be invisible? They are not going to be invisible. They are. They are a force of change. And I meet so many young people, and I listen to them on panels. I meet and hear their stories, and they don’t want to live with a status quo that we live with. They are definitely making their change makers. And there there are of course, not to reckon with, but I would say there are many others that are the the more silent Christophers and the more silent donnas and that are living in isolation. I remember being in the library and spending a lot of time alone and being scared because I was being bullied and not not oh gosh. Yeah, I have to say some of the things that lessons I learned that I would carry on is just building a strong network can make a real difference in your own journey. Connect with people. Connect with people that are different than yourselves. Connect with people that are from different political political spectrums. Connect with people from different races, from different sexual orientations and different experiences. We need to keep our minds open. We need to have a dialogue.
Christopher Sutton: We need to continue our dialogue. Make sure you also connect yourself with peers that understand what you’re going through, so they can encourage you and can lift you up. I cannot stress enough about developing self-confidence, and I was so fortunate that my parents never, never, never let me hear the nos and the nays. And when I heard that, they made sure that Christopher, that is not a barrier and that will not be a barrier for you. Developing self-confidence and self-advocacy is so essential. I’m going to probably say something that’s so popular, so some of the parents listening out there, but we have so many helicopter parents. And those helicopter parents are so protective of their their precious children. And I totally get that. But we also need to give our children the tools to be advocates. We can’t wait for a child to go to university, or trade school, or community college, or even to a workplace, and not being an advocate themselves. They need to learn how to advocate for their for their technology, for their accessibility, for their for the accommodations they need. And their parents can’t do it for them, frankly. So why? That was probably not the most popular thing to say. I hope your listeners that are parents also understand the importance of teaching their child about self-advocacy. They need to learn how to communicate. And I don’t mean communicate by speaking or signing. I mean by learning to read, by understanding empathy, understanding compassion, understanding body language. And and really knowing that an accommodation is not a burden. It’s a right that enables you to bring your best foot forward.
Christopher Sutton: And I think there are also moments when the paths feel harder, when your perspective and you might question your contributions, but realize that each and every step was worth it, that you deserve to be at the table where every decision is made that impacts you. You need to sharpen your communication skills and need to be open to new doors. Need to be opening to educating others. I don’t think people honestly, I like to think the best in everyone, and I don’t think people intentionally want to go out there and and not allow me to have the accessible communication I need, or intentionally are not going to intentionally do things to put me at harm, but I think it’s my responsibility to say I am death and I need a, b c not say I am deaf and it’s up for you to figure it out what my needs are. I need to be myself advocate and I think the younger generation, they need to learn how to do that and I’m very confident they know how to do that. And I also have to say, and I’m sorry that I’m making this question much longer, but I’m reflecting as I think this. But it’s so important to get involved with community organizations, with leadership programs, advisory groups. Donna, you and I sat at so many of these tables, and we see the same people every day. Yes, that’s great, but we need some new fresh faces at the table. We do need new perspectives. New opinions.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
Christopher Sutton: New experiences. You know, like it’s it’s it’s I’m not putting any disrespect to the wonderful people that have led this, led this charge. But we also need to understand the perspectives of younger people. And also, I think you need to stay curious and embrace continuous learning that will take you far. Learn about policy. Learn about human rights. Learn about public service. Learn about giving back. Because you know what? I’ve been given so much throughout my journey and and I’ll share something. When I was called into this position, this was not something that I just said, oh yeah, this is an awesome job. Wow. This is this is really cool. But also for me, it was a service. It was to give back to this country. Like as a person that’s deaf, I’m not able to serve in our military or armed forces. I’m not able to do so many things and that’s okay. But this was my calling to make sure that I could come to the forefront at these very critical times to make sure that I was able to bring voices to the table, I’m able to ensure that accessibility and barriers and all that are still a part of the very important conversations we’re having today. So I encourage public service, I encourage people to get involved, and I encourage people to learn to reach out and to be and to be leaders. And it’s okay if if you look at people like yourself, Donna or myself. And so I can’t do that, that’s too much. That’s not what I want to be. But if you just can do it for yourself. So for your young people listening out there, I say to them that your unique experience is your greatest strength. Your voice matters, your ideas are needed, and your lived experience is critical. And without it, we can’t make a powerful change. So we’re coming through exciting times right now for disability rights in Canada. Change is happening and they got to be a part of that change. So stay true to yourself and what you believe in. And keep dreaming and dream big.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Powerful words from a powerful changemaker. And I want to thank you for having taken the time to be on our podcast here. And, you know, if at any time you feel that you would like to come back and spread the word and motivate the youngsters, please reach out to me, let me know, and I would be pleased to have you back. Yeah.
Christopher Sutton: Donna, this has been my pleasure. I really enjoyed the last hour with you today. And please never hesitate to reach out. If you feel that I can bring my voice to your work and and to your listeners, because I’m always happy to do so. And Donna, thank you for all the work that you do each and every day. I know it’s not easy, and I know that sometimes we wake up and we go, oh, why am I doing this? But you know why you’re doing it, Donna. And you’re making a difference. So I want to thank you for that.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much. I am honored, and I’m humbled that, you know, to hear your comments. Please come back again soon. And thank you very much.
Christopher Sutton: Thank you. Donna, have a wonderful evening. And thank you to our listeners.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Enjoy. Ottawa. Thank you.
Christopher Sutton: Bye bye.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye. Bye now.
Christopher Sutton: Safe travels.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you.
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at DonnaJodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.
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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #63: Interview with Christopher Sutton, Accessibility Commissioner, Canadian Human Rights Commission
🎙️ Listen to this Podcast.
In this inspiring episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan sits down with Accessibility Commissioner Christopher Sutton to explore how his lived experience of deafness, foster care, isolation, and later receiving a cochlear implant has shaped his leadership and passion for system-wide change. He reflects on being told “no” throughout his childhood and how supportive parents, mentors, and his own determination pushed him to become a TV anchor, an entrepreneur, and a policy leader who now works to ensure that “other little Christophers and Donnas” grow up with fewer barriers and more role models. Drawing on his education at Gallaudet and the Ivey Business School, he explains how combining governance training, public policy expertise, and lived experience enables him to bridge communities, convene tough conversations, and embed human-centered accessibility into real-world decision-making.
Donna and Christopher also delve into his time leading Wavefront Centre through the early days of the pandemic, keeping essential interpreting, audiology, and deafblind services running while pushing governments and broadcasters to make public health information accessible with sign language, captions, and clear communication. He describes the Wavefront headquarters’ Rick Hansen Foundation gold-certified design, where acoustics, lighting, wayfinding, hearing loops, and “deaf-friendly” open sightlines were co-created with people who have lived experience, an example he believes large federal entities can and must emulate. From unpacking the proactive, enforcement-focused mandate of the Accessibility Commissioner within the Canadian Human Rights Commission to his work on British Columbia’s accessible service delivery standard and his advice to younger generations on self-advocacy, confidence, and getting involved, the conversation underscores that accessibility is not a “nice to have” but a shared responsibility and a fundamental condition for a barrier-free future.
TRANSCRIPT
Podcast Commentator: Greetings.
Podcast Commentator: Donna J Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA, invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, site loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I am Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments. In November of 2010, I won the Landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty’s Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I’m not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio, you’ll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today’s conversation, let me shine a spotlight on today’s guest, a changemaker whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. Christopher Sutton, I’d like to welcome you to my Remarkable World Commentary. Welcome.
Christopher Sutton: Thank you. Donna, it’s such a pleasure to be here. And thank you for your your invitation today. And really, it was such a pleasure to hear about your background and your experience because you have done such remarkable things for Canadians across the country. And I want to thank you for that.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much. Now we met. When did we meet? We met in 2024, I believe, at the Air Canada Advisory Committee meeting in Toronto. I believe we did.
Christopher Sutton: Donna, I think we were late before that. I think we met each other at circles in in Gatineau, Quebec, working on Elections Canada stuff. But we have reconnected. Yeah.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, I do apologize. We did meet through Elections Canada. That’s right, I apologize. I’m sorry.
Christopher Sutton: So no need to apologize. Donna, you meet with so many people each day. But I remember working together with you at Elections Canada and some really great stuff. And just hearing about the insights and the and the perspective that you brought to the table and, and the community that you brought to the table. So really been able to follow and work with you over the years and know that we’re making a difference in our respective places in the world.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, I do remember and I enjoyed working with you then, and I was kind of sorry to see you leave the Air Canada Committee, but you got bigger things to do now. And we’re looking forward to having you you know, continue to make a difference. So let’s get started. And to begin, which experiences from growing up with hearing loss and receiving a cochlear implant in 2008, most shaped your leadership style and how do they guide your decision as accessibility commissioner today?
Christopher Sutton: Well, thank you for that question, Donna. And I, I think there are many things that I could talk about here as an individual. I grew up in a very small and isolated community, and when people meet me, they’re often surprised learning about my story. Like all of our stories, we’re we have very unique journeys. And those journeys helped shape us to who we are today. I was a born and put in foster care. I was in foster care for many years before I was adopted. I don’t have much memory of that point, and I don’t actually have a lot of memory until I was a little bit older of a child. But I will talk about how, as a child, remembering there was no one else like me, that I was alone. I didn’t see other people with hearing aids or or that had support. I grew up in a very, very small, isolated community, but at the same time, I remember that being in an isolated community, I was afforded a lot of privilege as well. I had a great support. My, my my parents, especially my mother, really, really encouraged me to be the full individual that I was meant to be. When people talked about, oh, that’s a barrier, Christopher can’t do that because Christopher’s deaf or or or people struggle to understand who I was. My parents always instilled that you will do whatever you want to do and even higher. So when I was young, I wanted to be an anchor on TV, and I remember marching up to the to the, to the community channel newsroom, and they had a call up for anchors and people to volunteer on the community channel, and I love.
Christopher Sutton: I’m fascinated by current events. I love news, I love media, and really having the opportunity to be a part of that was so exciting. But I remember my mom telling me that her friend who ran the community channel called her and said, Christopher can’t do this. He stopped. He was able to read the news. He won’t be able to hear an interview story. He won’t be able to do all this stuff. Maybe we can have him, like, work in the background and help with editing and stuff like that. And my mom said, but you know, Christopher, you know that he wants to be in front of the camera. He’s going to be in front of the camera. And soon enough, Donna, I was in front of the camera, not one night a week, but three nights a week. But you know something, Donna? That wasn’t the only circumstance where I had to break down barriers to show that people with a disability can do whatever they do. In my circumstance, the only thing I couldn’t do was here was often being told I had labels, and because of those labels, I had to fit it to a category. I was deaf, so I wasn’t going to be able to read.
Christopher Sutton: I wasn’t going to graduate from high school or even junior high school. The occupations that were set out for me were these occupations and I was fired. I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to own a hotel to I wanted to be a chef. I wanted to all these other things. And people kept saying, no, no, no, no. But each time a no came, I crossed that bridge and sometimes crossed it a little bit further. And I have to say, the nose and the you can’t, you can’t give me the strength and the courage and and all those people that supported me to really get to where I am today. So I have to say, what really inspires me is Wanting to be able to make sure that the other little Christopher’s, the other little Donna’s, the other little Michael’s and Jane’s and Paul’s don’t grow up with the same barriers, don’t grow up not having having role models and and people they can look up to, and people that have paved the way so that they can have a better, better life. I really want to people and people with disabilities, especially to feel connected, to see themselves as part of the change. And I really, really, really want to make sure people are not isolated and alone. And that really has been a driving force, force behind the work that I do and my passions that that get me up each day.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think this is great. You know, I, I couldn’t agree more. I really couldn’t. So you earned a BA from. And I hope I’m having this pronounced correctly. Gallaudet. That.
Christopher Sutton: Gallaudet. Gallaudet depends from.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. And an MBA from Ivy along with governance training. How did that mix of education prepare you for policy oversight and enforcement at the Canadian Human Rights Commission?
Christopher Sutton: Yeah, that’s a really another great question, Donna. And I think as I just shared with you, I’ve always been very headstrong and I had real ambition and goals. And as I said, I’m very lucky that my parents raised me to believe that barriers could be overcome and that anything is possible if I work hard and I apply myself and I and I am a believer and firm believer. Continuous ongoing education I currently just finished up some some training on mediation and other things because I believe that we can never stop learning, and learning is as a responsibility we have to ourselves. So whether it was my dream of being a news anchor or or just being a journalist, making a difference in people’s lives was something that I really wanted to do and something that drives me each day. I’ve been very fortunate. I know as a person with a disability, and to be able to have the career that I have today. I know that so many of my friends and colleagues have not had the same benefits. They’ve not been able to get the same educational experience or, or, or educational opportunities. And I’ve been very privileged and I and I think those, those role models, I think those those sponsors and so many people that put faith in me and encourage me because that encouragement is what led me to be here. But right now, in this role, one of the things I’d like most is to be a bridge for people, bringing people together to figure out how we can achieve a more accessible Canada together.
Christopher Sutton: Donna, you know, from our work together, I love to have dialogues. I love to bring organizations together, bring people together. I like to look at the big picture. I like to say, okay, this is the barriers we’re facing today, but how can we break down those barriers? How can we tap into the different challenges, different expertise and experience of individuals? I’m very passionate about public policy. Very passionate about system designs and organization and management. But I’m also very passionate about the lived experiences and and the different barriers that we face each day and how we can come together to really put a human element and a human centric side of it to really make people’s lives better. So I’d like to say, like, I went to Ivy Business School, one of the best business schools in the world. I’ve done some fantastic governance programs and, you know. Very, very few people at my time in those programs identified with any of the diversity that I talk about in myself, like coming from a small, isolated community working in a not for profit sector being an individual with, with a disability. And in these organizations and these programs, I went these are full of executives from the large banking sectors, from from media, from, from many different organizations.
Christopher Sutton: And often I was the first person they met in a leadership role that understood the language they spoke, but also had a disability. So I often was able to talk about how diversity, inclusion and accessibility should be and must be understood in the broader business and policy context. And I think my, my colleagues in those programs really appreciate that. They really appreciated that. They got to know an individual. They got to know firsthand about the barriers that I experience and how we how we work together to overcome some of those barriers. And I made some awesome friendships, and I and I know that I’ve really been able to help influence how people see people with disabilities. But also at the same time, I’ve also led organizations and businesses myself, and I understand firsthand the realities and pressures that come with running a business, managing people, and implementing compliance. And that experience really has helped me translate policy goals into practical, workable approaches. And the realities that that organizations must deal with when we’re looking at the Accessible Canada Act or other regulations out there. So I think I’ve been very fortunate to be able to have this academic training, this global exposure and real world leadership experience has given me a unique perspective. How I can help move this file at the Human Rights Commission and my work as a commissioner at the Commission.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think this is terrific, really. Now, you took the helm at Wavefront Center on April 1st, 2020, right as the pandemic began. What did that chapter teach you about resilience, accessible communication and service continuity that you are applying at the core?
Christopher Sutton: So, Donna, it feels like hundreds to hundreds of years ago. But you remember just six years ago, five, six years ago, we were hearing about this coronavirus. We were hearing about about this disease or illness that was going around and people were getting sick. And it’s hard to believe it’s only been five years, and we’ve gone through a profound, profound amount of global changes since. But a lot of people don’t realize on the day the global shutdowns happened, I actually was moving from Ottawa to Vancouver to start a new role. I actually was supposed to start the role a little bit later, but because of the shutdowns, the board of directors said, we really need someone to come in with the leadership, with the ability to handle these complex situations, to help guide us and our business through this time. So I just moved across the country, joined a completely new organization, knowing no one in this city and suddenly finding myself navigating a landscape where conditions change daily and sometimes by the hour. Leading to that amount of uncertainty taught me what real resilience looks like. Staying focused on people making decisions quickly yet compassionately, and creating stability in an environment where, frankly, there was no stability. Waypoint center was named an essential service by the Government of British Columbia. It provided essential services like sign language interpreting, audiology, employment services, deafblind intervener services. There are so many programs and services, and one of the other things that provided was connectivity. It brought connectivity to a community that was already isolated, that already faced so many barriers and really had to bring the human element to the front and center.
Christopher Sutton: Not only were we dealing with uncertainties in the world. The team that I had to leave were coming in and supporting people that depended on us for communication access, health services and community connection. And I had to lead through constant change while ensuring the staff supported safe and valued, but also ensuring that the services to clients relied on each and every day. As a situation, change was there for them that when they needed an interpreter, there was an interpreter at that medical appointment, when they needed to excuse me, when they needed an audiologist to fix their hearing aid, or for some people, because they needed to attend a funeral of a loved one that passed away from from Covid 19, we were there for them. But also at the same time, accessible communication became a defining lesson in those early days. Public health information was not accessible. It was not accessible in sign language. Captioning was very poor and and so many communities missed out on life altering and life saving information that was being provided. We had to change that. And I and I was so fortunate. I reached out to contacts, whether they were in the Prime Minister’s office or broadcasters, and really brought forward educating governments, media and other organizations about the importance of accessible communication. And that really has changed. What we see now is more global, widespread acceptance of ASL interpretation or lsq interpretation and other accessibility features that we see.
Screen Reader: Notification from.
Christopher Sutton: During during emergencies and other times. But if you go to other places in the world, you actually see these for cooking shows and whatnot.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Yeah.
Christopher Sutton: But we also had to build new partnerships. So we had to look at the programs and services that we traditionally delivered, and we had to offer new ones. The community and the world we lived in was changing, and it was so important that we designed our program so that our community was connected, so that businesses were able to provide accessible information so that government had a service provider to turn to. So it really why it was. A very difficult point for us. It also allowed the organization to become much more stronger and sustainable and create a national name for itself. So I take all these lessons each and every day in my work at the HRC. They shape how I approach policy oversight, accessibility with a deep understanding of what communities need in real time, how essential clear communication is, and how important it is to lead with both humility and decisiveness. Suppress.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I can hear it in your voice. The passion. You know we need. We need this type of passion, this type of leadership. If we and I say we, I mean, our communities are, you know, expected to move forward because these are difficult times and the landscape is changing dramatically every single day.
Christopher Sutton: It is, it is.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. So wave of friends headquarters achieved Rick Hansen Foundation accessibility certified goal within 96 out of 100. Which design choices made the biggest difference? And how should large federal entities translate this lesson into their own buildings?
Christopher Sutton: Yeah, I am very proud of the work that and that we’ve done. And I actually have to say like when I, when I was being headhunted and recruited to take on the role of CEO at Wavefront Centre, it was moving to, like I said, an area that I never set foot in. Like I’ve been to Vancouver maybe twice in my life, and I’ve always called myself an East Coast type of person. You know, I like the the faster pace of life in the East Coast. My friends were here, my family were here. But I was inspired by the bold action that the board of directors and the staff and the community wanted to make, like Waypoint Center’s head office was very carefully and intentionally designed to ensure that it was the highest rating accessible building in North America. They didn’t set out on the goal that, oh, we want to get this rating. We set on the goal of saying, this is what our communities need. Our communities need this so that they can be in a fully inclusive environment where it doesn’t matter if you’re you’re a person with a disability, if you’re someone that’s aging, whether you’re a person with vision loss or hearing loss or deafness, whether you’re someone that that is short, whether you’re a child. They want the organization and its purpose built facility to be completely barrier free and to be a model. Frankly, I, I’ve gone to so many presentations over the years where I would meet with architects, would meet with designers, meet with banks, meet with other organizations, and say.
Christopher Sutton: If Wavefront Center could do this, a small, little, tiny, not for profit organization regionally and in Vancouver, and they were able to make the investments to include the community, to look at design practices to look at best practice from the CSA, from the building code, from. From what we’ve saw in other jurisdictions like at Gallaudet and took those standards and elevated them even higher. If we can do it, anyone should be able to do it. There is no excuse that a regulated entity that has millions and billions of dollars of profit cannot do the same. There’s no excuse whatsoever. They also have to say the success of the project came from involving people with lived experience directly in the design process, in the build process, in every decision around acoustics, lighting, wayfinding, everything was shaped by the real needs of individuals and not by the assumptions and not necessarily by the professionals and and individuals who would say, well, this is what this group needs, but was actually connecting with people with lived experience to understand those experiences firsthand. Obviously, Waypoint Center serves people that are deaf, blind, and hard of hearing. So acoustics became a major role. We wanted to make sure for individuals that were deaf, there was a lot of ability to be able to communicate with using sign language. So a lot of glass, a lot of open spaces, spaces that were called deaf friendly, where you can move freely and not have to worry about hitting someone.
Christopher Sutton: We also want to make sure that people that use hearing aid and other technologies, that oral cast and and loops and, and systems built in place. So no matter where you were, you were able to listen without barriers. We also have the HVAC system in the building, what normally is around 75 to 80dB in most office settings, reduced to 35 to 40dB, which means a person that was hearing that does not have a hearing loss could actually be more comfortable in the environment. But someone like myself that uses technology didn’t have the interference of the background noise constantly. Donna, I can go on and on and on about this. And if any of your viewers are in Vancouver, I. I highly encourage you to reach out to a front center. They would be happy to give you a tour of their presentations. If you go to their website, they have diagrams. So there’s so much, so much effort and pride put into that organization. But some of the key lessons, because you ask about key lessons that I would provide large federal entities, is that accessibility must be integrated from the onset, every stage, from early planning stages, right up to the design to the implementation, to the opening. But you also have to be willing to adapt when when the building opens, there’s going to be flaws, there’s going to be things that need to change and code change as well.
Christopher Sutton: When Waypoint Center opened its head office, head office in the newer locations we’ve opened since then, we’ve taken feedback we’ve received from the community to make sure those new facilities were even much more accessible. I would also say an important takeaway is accessibility features benefit everyone better. Q6 good lighting, barrier free circulation, clear communication systems experiences not only for the clients, but for the staff, for visitors, for everyone, so that they can have a barrier free, barrier free experience. And as I said, I really think the most important lesson is forward thinking at all levels of an organization. You need your leaders. You need your board. You can’t just have frontline staff pushing this. You need people at every organization championing accessibility, Championing these best practices. Because if you don’t, we’re not going to get the change that we need to drive that lasting change. So I have to say, there’s so much we can do together. And wavefront took a dream and they made it into a reality as they knew the benefits would have far greater rewards than just meeting this, this wonderful recognition of being the most rated facility in North America, but just being a place where you would see the smiles of families, hearing stories of people being able to enjoy the facility and go to any facility that they weren’t able to go to and the experience they had there.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It must have been difficult for you to leave wavefront and assume your new role. Was it?
Christopher Sutton: Well, Donna, I have to say, like I, I’m a person that likes challenge, like, you know, as an ambitious A-type personality and as an individual like, I really appreciated my time at Wavefront Center. It gave me so many lessons, so many teachings, and it really it really gave me the experience I needed for myself to be where I am today. But at the same time, I know that I’ve been recognized and I and I recognize for being able to bring people together, bringing organizations together, and really to be able to have some of those difficult dialogues. And I’m not scared to have difficult conversations and I and coming to the commission while leaving that beautiful facility that was so barrier free. It’s been a fantastic experience here. When I was onboarding, they asked me what I needed. They asked me what technology I needed to support me, how how I need to be engaged in decisions and everything I’ve said. They made. Made. They made happen. And I have to say, they’ve been a fantastic organization. And I don’t I wish every Canadian could see the work that’s done here, because the work sometimes is quite slow. But the impact and the progress that is happening to impact the lives of every individual in this country is just astonishing. And and I really think the, the open arms and, and my colleagues here because they’ve been fantastic and it’s really made up for some of the things that I miss that waypoint centre. But the people and and just really being leaders and making sure that my experience has been positive has been really, really fantastic.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You shared British Columbia’s accessible, accessible services delivery Every standard committee which elements of that standard map most directly to national expectations under the under the Accessible Canada Act.
Christopher Sutton: Donna, you know what I like you I was I was one of those individuals and organizations that worked hard to ensure the Accessible Canada Act was, was passed and made, made into regulations and and received Royal assent and spent many years advocating for, for for this this wonderful piece of this wonderful piece of legislation that really was groundbreaking. It created like this foundation and built something so that we can move forward with it and move forward with the times, Unlike other jurisdictions where they have thousands and thousands and thousands of pages. Thy shall, thy shall not. Da da da da da. We’re actually able to build regulations that meet the times of today. One of the things that really inspired me after the passage of the Accessible Canada Act is that other jurisdictions like British Columbia, Manitoba other provinces quickly adopted their own accessibility legislation. And they really looked at this at the, at the principle of the Accessible Canada Act. Nothing without us. And I really think that that accessibility legislation was groundbreaking because it opened the minds that opened the ears and really open the hearts of our communities. And Canadians didn’t want to sit back and say, no, we this is not a priority. It was a priority and it is a priority. So you know what? Like being a part of the work in British Columbia was very, very inspiring. They have a fantastic team that works at the Accessibility Directorate. They’re a very small but mighty team. And and they did things differently than I was used to doing in Ontario or even at Accessibility Standards Canada. And the way they involve the community and building up and building their standards.
Christopher Sutton: And the consultation and feedback has been incredible. Like I have to say, the work that was put on the feedback process of the service delivery standard and the amount of feedback they got back was incredible. I would also just say the BC drop standard and the Accessible Canada Act emphasize barrier free access to information and communication. That means that ensuring that our websites, documents, customer service channels are accessible in formats that people with diverse abilities can use, whether it’s plain language, screen reader compatibility captioning, or sign language interpretation. There’s also a strong focus on training and culture change. The Accessible Canada Act requires federally regulated organizations to build accessibility into their operations, and the BC draft standard references that by requiring staff to be trained in disability awareness, inclusive service delivery, and that’s not about just putting a new policy out there in your HR handbook. That’s about accessibility into everyday practice and not treating as an afterthought. And Donna, you and I both know when we embed accessibility intentionally into something, it benefits everyone. And I also think that both the the provincial legislation, the federal approaches recognize that accessibility is about designing and co-designing with the disability community at each and every step. We need to make sure that the community is involved with this process, and the experience of people with live, diverse experiences is what’s going to change and really push the change that we need in this country to make sure that we’re barrier free, whether it’s 2040, 2025, 2050. But those are just timelines and dates. It’s making the change that we need today so that the future will be barrier free.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I guess we got to keep pushing for more people to be convinced that accessibility is simply not a nice to have. It is a must. It is it. It benefits not just our community benefits everybody. Right.
Christopher Sutton: Yeah. Like when I think of like I saw a commercial not too long ago, I don’t know if it was a new commercial or something relatively older, but I just remember like how, how it showed how, what we would just say is simply as a door opener that was built and designed for a person with a mobility device, how it helps the package delivery driver, how it helps a parent with a child in a in a in a stroller, how it helps someone that’s using a bike or someone with a temporary disability, something that was designed for our community has created tremendous benefit for all. I don’t know how many times I go to a building, and I actually just see someone hitting that button. I actually never intentionally hit the button to open the open the accessible door or the kick the door open, because I’m always worried that I might be the one that breaks it. Yeah, the one that really needs it won’t be able to use it, but it’s it’s just people really have come, I don’t want to say dependent on it, but it’s just become the norm for people.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: For listeners who may not know the structure, what is the Accessibility Commissioner’s mandate inside the Canadian Human Rights Commission, and how does it interact with the traditional human rights complaints process?
Christopher Sutton: Yeah, Donna, that’s actually another excellent question. You know what the the Accessible Canada Act brought three new separate organizations or individuals into the accessibility thing. We have the accessible the Accessibility Standards Canada, and they work on developing standards. We have the chief accessibility officer who is advising the minister on issues related to accessibility and keeping a pulse of the community. And then you have the accessibility commissioner, who really is my responsibility is to ensure compliance of the regulations and enforcement of them. And and it wasn’t a mistake that they chose to house the accessibility Office of the Accessibility Commissioner within the Canadian Human Rights Commission. The Commission has a broad mandate to promote and to protect the human rights, including disability rights. In addition to being an accessibility commissioner, I’m also a member of the. See, a lot of people don’t know that I get to wear two hats. I wear 4 or 5, but at the commission I wear two hats. I’m a full time member of the commission and can and render decisions and hear about human rights complaints and barriers and and also the accessibility Commissioner and many of your listeners. And you, Donna, know that the HRC has a mandate to deal with complaints of discriminations in federal jurisdictions Historically, those complaints have been mostly around disability issues. And as the Accessibility Commissioner, I am excited to work alongside my colleagues at the Commission to help move us from being a reactive, complaint based system to a human rights system that’s proactive as well. So what’s different about underneath the Accessible Canada Act is that we are actively out there working with federally regulated organizations and asking them to be proactive.
Christopher Sutton: What are the barriers in your places of work? What are the barriers for your employers? What are the barriers for your clients so that they can proactively address them so that we don’t even get to a stage where we actually have complaints, because organizations will be identifying and addressing the barriers and and solving those barriers Years before an individual has to come and follow a complaint. Since since the Accessible Canada Act has come into force, there’s been a lot of work going on at the commission. This was a very new mandate, and it was a very new shift for the Commission. The commission was used to getting complaints that were reactive. We had to build a team. My team has had to work closely to ensure federally regulated organizations in Canada know about their obligations under the Accessible Canada Act and its regulations. We’ve had to meet with community and advocates to learn about their experience, to take that back, to inform our work, and we developed a wide range of compliance and enforcement tools. That includes a mechanism to deal with complaints if necessary. So the last several years has been so much activity going on at the commission to build this program so that we can be active and we can be ready to take complaints. But we don’t necessarily want complaints. We really want to make sure that organizations identify the barriers and identify how to create solutions to overcome those barriers, so that we can live in communities and can live, and hopefully our grandchildren and great grandchildren can look back and never understand the word barrier, because it’s never existed for them.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I guess we’re in Two Hats for you is quite an interesting I wouldn’t say challenge, but adventure, would you say?
Christopher Sutton: Well, I would say. An appreciation. Because you know what? As I mentioned, the some of the largest number of complaints we get are based on disability and being the accessibility commissioner, I get to work with organisations to make sure we can identify those barriers and make sure that they’re not barriers. But I guess get to also where that other side, where I can hear the complaints and the discrimination that individuals faced and be able to understand firsthand some of those complaints, but not only just in accessibility and disability, but also in the areas of race, sexual orientation and gender on, on, on so many diverse issues and and people that know me know that I am passionate about human rights. I’m passionate about all of these areas. So I have to say, when I was appointed to this role and I found out a part of that role, I can exercise the right to be also a full time member of the commission. That was like the icing on the cake, Donna. Like, I get to listen to accessibility stuff and champion change, but I also get to be involved in another area that I’m very passionate about as well.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I can hear it in your voice, and, you know, I think we really need to double down on all of this and we really need to, you know, push more awareness, push the importance of this. So, you know.
Christopher Sutton: And, you know, Donna, I you and I both know and you have a little bit more experience than I have. You’ve been a trailblazer and so many other my role models and and inspiration that that make me excited, not only excited but give me the passion to get up each day so I can carry the change and the torch that we’ve been doing this for years and years and years and years, and we’ve been talking about the barriers and talking about the barriers. We’ve been on this journey for a very long time, and I don’t want to excuse the federal entities or businesses, but their journey is a little bit newer, and we need to make sure that they understand firsthand about the barriers. They need to include people with disabilities to understand about those barriers so they can make the changes. But we have to work together. We can’t do this alone. The disability community can’t do this alone. Governments can’t do it alone. Regulated entities can’t do it alone. Communities can’t do it alone. We have to come together to do this together. We cannot come from one side only. And if we don’t come together as a community working collaboratively, we’re going to continue to face these barriers. So, Donna, your passionate advocacy, the work that I’m doing, the work of so many of our colleagues each day is so critical. But we also have to extend a little reach and include others because that’s what’s going to drive that change.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now the clock is winding down. But I would like to ask you this question. What words of wisdom do you have for the younger generation? How can they continue in our footsteps? How could we ensure that their future is a better future than what we’ve had? What can we do? What can they do?
Christopher Sutton: You know, Donna, I, I think about that question often. And you talked about being a role model and a mentor. That’s something that I, I aspire to and something that I’ve also taken time to do. I think role models and and And visibility is so important because we’ve been invisible for so long. And I don’t think the younger generation, generation Expect? Or do they believe that they’re going to be invisible? They are not going to be invisible. They are. They are a force of change. And I meet so many young people, and I listen to them on panels. I meet and hear their stories, and they don’t want to live with a status quo that we live with. They are definitely making their change makers. And there there are of course, not to reckon with, but I would say there are many others that are the the more silent Christophers and the more silent donnas and that are living in isolation. I remember being in the library and spending a lot of time alone and being scared because I was being bullied and not not oh gosh. Yeah, I have to say some of the things that lessons I learned that I would carry on is just building a strong network can make a real difference in your own journey. Connect with people. Connect with people that are different than yourselves. Connect with people that are from different political political spectrums. Connect with people from different races, from different sexual orientations and different experiences. We need to keep our minds open. We need to have a dialogue.
Christopher Sutton: We need to continue our dialogue. Make sure you also connect yourself with peers that understand what you’re going through, so they can encourage you and can lift you up. I cannot stress enough about developing self-confidence, and I was so fortunate that my parents never, never, never let me hear the nos and the nays. And when I heard that, they made sure that Christopher, that is not a barrier and that will not be a barrier for you. Developing self-confidence and self-advocacy is so essential. I’m going to probably say something that’s so popular, so some of the parents listening out there, but we have so many helicopter parents. And those helicopter parents are so protective of their their precious children. And I totally get that. But we also need to give our children the tools to be advocates. We can’t wait for a child to go to university, or trade school, or community college, or even to a workplace, and not being an advocate themselves. They need to learn how to advocate for their for their technology, for their accessibility, for their for the accommodations they need. And their parents can’t do it for them, frankly. So why? That was probably not the most popular thing to say. I hope your listeners that are parents also understand the importance of teaching their child about self-advocacy. They need to learn how to communicate. And I don’t mean communicate by speaking or signing. I mean by learning to read, by understanding empathy, understanding compassion, understanding body language. And and really knowing that an accommodation is not a burden. It’s a right that enables you to bring your best foot forward.
Christopher Sutton: And I think there are also moments when the paths feel harder, when your perspective and you might question your contributions, but realize that each and every step was worth it, that you deserve to be at the table where every decision is made that impacts you. You need to sharpen your communication skills and need to be open to new doors. Need to be opening to educating others. I don’t think people honestly, I like to think the best in everyone, and I don’t think people intentionally want to go out there and and not allow me to have the accessible communication I need, or intentionally are not going to intentionally do things to put me at harm, but I think it’s my responsibility to say I am death and I need a, b c not say I am deaf and it’s up for you to figure it out what my needs are. I need to be myself advocate and I think the younger generation, they need to learn how to do that and I’m very confident they know how to do that. And I also have to say, and I’m sorry that I’m making this question much longer, but I’m reflecting as I think this. But it’s so important to get involved with community organizations, with leadership programs, advisory groups. Donna, you and I sat at so many of these tables, and we see the same people every day. Yes, that’s great, but we need some new fresh faces at the table. We do need new perspectives. New opinions.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
Christopher Sutton: New experiences. You know, like it’s it’s it’s I’m not putting any disrespect to the wonderful people that have led this, led this charge. But we also need to understand the perspectives of younger people. And also, I think you need to stay curious and embrace continuous learning that will take you far. Learn about policy. Learn about human rights. Learn about public service. Learn about giving back. Because you know what? I’ve been given so much throughout my journey and and I’ll share something. When I was called into this position, this was not something that I just said, oh yeah, this is an awesome job. Wow. This is this is really cool. But also for me, it was a service. It was to give back to this country. Like as a person that’s deaf, I’m not able to serve in our military or armed forces. I’m not able to do so many things and that’s okay. But this was my calling to make sure that I could come to the forefront at these very critical times to make sure that I was able to bring voices to the table, I’m able to ensure that accessibility and barriers and all that are still a part of the very important conversations we’re having today. So I encourage public service, I encourage people to get involved, and I encourage people to learn to reach out and to be and to be leaders. And it’s okay if if you look at people like yourself, Donna or myself. And so I can’t do that, that’s too much. That’s not what I want to be. But if you just can do it for yourself. So for your young people listening out there, I say to them that your unique experience is your greatest strength. Your voice matters, your ideas are needed, and your lived experience is critical. And without it, we can’t make a powerful change. So we’re coming through exciting times right now for disability rights in Canada. Change is happening and they got to be a part of that change. So stay true to yourself and what you believe in. And keep dreaming and dream big.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Powerful words from a powerful changemaker. And I want to thank you for having taken the time to be on our podcast here. And, you know, if at any time you feel that you would like to come back and spread the word and motivate the youngsters, please reach out to me, let me know, and I would be pleased to have you back. Yeah.
Christopher Sutton: Donna, this has been my pleasure. I really enjoyed the last hour with you today. And please never hesitate to reach out. If you feel that I can bring my voice to your work and and to your listeners, because I’m always happy to do so. And Donna, thank you for all the work that you do each and every day. I know it’s not easy, and I know that sometimes we wake up and we go, oh, why am I doing this? But you know why you’re doing it, Donna. And you’re making a difference. So I want to thank you for that.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much. I am honored, and I’m humbled that, you know, to hear your comments. Please come back again soon. And thank you very much.
Christopher Sutton: Thank you. Donna, have a wonderful evening. And thank you to our listeners.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Enjoy. Ottawa. Thank you.
Christopher Sutton: Bye bye.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye. Bye now.
Christopher Sutton: Safe travels.
Donna Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you.
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at DonnaJodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.
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