Remarkable World Commentary Episode #25: Interview with Angela Bonfanti, President and CEO, CNIB

🎙️Listen to this podcast.

In this episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan sits down with Angela Bonfanti, the first woman in over a century to lead the CNIB as President and CEO. Together, they explore the significance of her historic appointment, the weight of responsibility that comes with the role, and the urgent need for leadership that reflects the diversity of the communities it serves. Bonfanti shares her personal journey within the organization, her vision for driving systemic change, and how CNIB is working to reshape outdated attitudes about blindness and accessibility.

The conversation also dives into pressing national issues, including the recent removal of “disability” from a federal cabinet title, and what this means for Canada’s disability community. Bonfanti speaks candidly about the importance of unified advocacy, embedding accessibility into policy from the start, and inspiring the next generation of leaders. With stories that blend personal insight, strategic vision, and an unwavering call to action, this episode is both a rallying cry and a roadmap for building a more inclusive Canada.

TRANSCRIPT:

Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA, invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.

Donna Jodhan: Angela, how are you doing?

Angela Bonfanti: I am well, how are you doing?

Donna Jodhan: Oh, we are doing just fine. Yeah? Yeah.

Angela Bonfanti: Glad. Thank you for this opportunity. I really appreciate it.

Donna Jodhan: Well, it’s a pleasure and a privilege to have you here. You know.

Angela Bonfanti: It’s a pleasure’s all mine. Are you kidding?

Donna Jodhan: Well, you know, you’re such a busy lady. You have so much on your plate.

Angela Bonfanti: It’s part of the job getting the message out, answering questions.

Donna Jodhan: It could not have come at a very opportune time. It’s a very crucial time for all of us.

Angela Bonfanti: Yep.

Donna Jodhan: And, you know, like, we are in rough seas right now. Right. Yeah. And we want to know.

Angela Bonfanti: And we don’t need to be. This is all very unnecessary. History.

Donna Jodhan: Well, I call it self-inflicted. An interview question, you know. Self-inflicted wounds on the part of external powers. And now we have to deal with it. But I know I’ve known you for a long time, and I know that you will overcome.

Angela Bonfanti: We will do everything in our power to overcome.

Donna Jodhan: So let’s get started with the very first question.

Angela Bonfanti: Okay.

Donna Jodhan: What does it mean to you that you are the first Lady? I don’t like the word woman. The first lady in over a century to be leading the Cnib. What does this mean to you personally? And, you know, like, tell tell me what your feelings are. You have to deal with so many issues like Dei, accessibility keeping the profile of the Cnib, you know, at its It’s level. What does all this mean to you?

Angela Bonfanti: Well, I mean, I can tell you for certain that, you know, when I first walked into the Cnib building, the Baker Wood building.

Screen Reader: Down there.

Angela Bonfanti: Decades ago, I won’t say how many exactly. There was that. I I, I know I’ve never had any clue that I would be the CEO and president. I mean, that’s just wild down there. Even when I started with Cnib 13.5 years ago, you know, I was coming in to help with fundraising and messaging and yes, it never crossed my mind. It wasn’t until late or later on that I thought, oh my goodness, I think I want to do this. So it’s, it’s it’s been a wild ride. The 108 year old organization. I’m the eighth CEO. Yes. You’re right, the first lady woman, what have you. And the milestone that I carry with me, along with a ton of gratitude. It’s a deep sense of responsibility as well. And personally, it’s it’s incredibly meaningful to be in this role, especially knowing the impact Cnib had on my own family, with my dad losing his sight. And it’s so it’s not just about being the first female CEO to lead Cnib. It’s about what this moment says more broadly about leadership in our sector. So, you know, I think now more than ever, to your point, leadership just it has to reflect the diversity of the communities that we serve, not just in terms of gender, but across race, disability, language, identity, lived experience. You know, you and I both know intersectionality matters. So when we bring different perspectives to the table, we make better decisions, we build stronger teams, and essentially we deliver more inclusive outcomes, which is what I’m all about. So yes, I’m proud of what the milestone represents, but I also see it as just one step. So I think the real goal is to keep the doors open and to create a space for the next generation of leaders who will be even more depth, have more depth that have more, you know, insight and and innovation to this really important work. And I think that’s that’s. Really, really important today. Maybe more than, more than than ever before.

Donna Jodhan: Now, do you think that, you know, being a woman slash lady, is it. Does this signify anything to the community or to Canadians with disabilities or anyone listening in flag?

Angela Bonfanti: You know, I think we’re.

Angela Bonfanti: Obviously there was an international search extensive international search on behalf of the board and a nine month.

Screen Reader: Process. You know.

Angela Bonfanti: All it’s saying is, is that we’re, you know, we are progressing and we understand that women play a role in leadership. And there’s a there’s a there’s a disproportionate amount of women that are represented in the not for profit sector, but not at the senior leadership level. And I and I read somewhere, Donna, that there are more CEOs in the world named John than there are female CEOs in the world, period. And so I find that kind of interesting because it, it.

Screen Reader: It.

Angela Bonfanti: It, you know, and the notion was that.

Screen Reader: The.

Angela Bonfanti: Name John needs to make room for women like me and others in the street. And that’s what’s happened here. So I think, you know, really progressive leadership that I’m part of. Joining the Cnib board is very progressive. They understand the diversity matters.

Screen Reader: One reminder.

Angela Bonfanti: Diversity of thought.

Screen Reader: Is really important.

Angela Bonfanti: And I think that they that this is just indicative of the fact that that people are recognizing that the world is changing and women have women have a role, they have a very significant role. We belong at all levels in a company, not just in the front lines.

Donna Jodhan: It’s a very heavy responsibility, isn’t it?

Screen Reader: Zoom meeting set items.

Donna Jodhan: You know, like at this particular point in time, like, you know, we’re facing so many external difficulties, right? And now, you know, probably a challenge within our own country. I mean, I don’t know if you want to touch on that.

Angela Bonfanti: Yeah. No, I’m happy to. I know I’m not happy to. I’m unhappy to that. I have to, but I’m happy to share with you. We we had our cabinet you know

Screen Reader: Announced last week.

Angela Bonfanti: Tuesday that that no longer had a, had a disability as part of it, as part of its composition. And I think you had you had an excellent op ed in the paper, and there have been plenty of people, you know, rising up about this, and it’s not acceptable. Why do we not have Minister, this government has in their platform had a very, I thought, very good disability action plan. Thought of being called out in somebody’s title. How do we know who to go to? Now we I am fresh off a call with the Prime Minister’s office today. We have been affirmed that the minister, Patty Hajdu, is the Minister of persons with disability. I don’t know why they wouldn’t just put that in a title. So we’re working on that, and we need to have a conversation with the Prime Minister and the minister who’s whose ministers title is Families and Jobs, which obviously we understand there’s disability and families and jobs. But that’s not the extent of all of it. To just understand who’s going to navigate.

Screen Reader: This, this dialogue on our roadmap.

Angela Bonfanti: So I.

Screen Reader: I.

Angela Bonfanti: I think yes, there are massive issues that are dealing.

Screen Reader: With are.

Angela Bonfanti: Very clear that he’s he’s focusing on US Canada relations and as he should.

Screen Reader: But none of them is losing.

Angela Bonfanti: They’re losing their voice in cabinet or being done off the side of somebody’s desk. So it’s early days. I, we, we we will be meeting with Minister Hajji to hear from her what what priorities she sees on the this she expects putting on the disability file. So more to come. I think the one, you know, silver lining is that we had a quick response to the Prime Minister’s office. They are reaching out to other disability organizations in trying to provide assurances. I hope we see a change in that title and a very.

Screen Reader: Obvious vision for the letter.

Angela Bonfanti: And then from there, hopefully we can establish a partnership with the federal government to do what’s best. In a disability action plan, which which includes an employment profile, which includes a youth profile, which which includes a number of things that that we’ve been advocating for for too many years.

Donna Jodhan: Do you think this was an inadvertent error or was will we? I don’t think we were deliberately left out, but what what do you think led to this?

Angela Bonfanti: It’s a good question. I don’t know, and I, I know I was in the room. I, I have to have I mean, I spent a number of years in the House of Commons. I understand that when you’re in election mode, you’re not really thinking about who your cabinet ministers are. You’re you’re knocking on doors. That is your number one priority. Let’s win. And then we’ll figure out who makes government. And then you have a very short window to make those decisions. And I know that this sounds it might sound ludicrous, but I you know, things do get missed now. To be completely clear, the government hasn’t told us which one it is. And we’ve asked we’ve not received an answer.

Donna Jodhan: They won’t tell.

Angela Bonfanti: You? Yeah. If we were missed, then that to me is actually, you know, I think this is very similar to what you wrote. If we were forgotten. Well, why are we not? Have we not been loud enough? Have we not been prioritized enough? Why were we forgotten in someone’s title? No, I haven’t seen mandate letters, and I and I would, I would one of the asks our teammate today to the Prime Minister’s office is that every mandate letter should include a disability lens because we are across the board, you name the ministry, we are impacted. So, you know, if there is some notion that if we can embed more disability issues within each of the mandate letters of all the ministries, then, you know, one would argue you may not need a minister one day. Okay, fine. But we do need one today. So if we start with that, minister, actually having disability persons with disabilities out called in her title so that everyday Canadians know where to go. That’s the issue. So the absence I think I think you’re what you’ve described in some of the things that you’ve written. The the absence here is is is palpable. It’s sending it’s sending messages. I don’t know that the government is intending to send the messages that that we’ve received. But having that empty seat at the table speaks volumes. And so I’m concerned we are having conversations. I don’t know where they’ll land on. But I can assure you and the audience that we will do everything we can to make this right along with dozens of other disability organizations that are doing the same thing that we are because we’re not alone.

Donna Jodhan: No. I think, you know, we caught a lot of us off guard. And now we got to speak up and speak out, and we got to make sure that the Prime Minister hears us, that he understands. And, you know, we are here, you know. Yeah.

Angela Bonfanti: All right. We’re here and we have work to do. We we we have started.

Angela Bonfanti: On a path and I and I’ve been I’ve been critical of previous of the previous government in particular about the, you know, how slow We are making societal change under the Accessibility Act. The accessibility. Accessible Canada act. Yeah. And that we we need to sort of come together in my mind kind of reset and and and create solution based strategies so that we can start to feel and to understand the difference that this act is actually going to make in our country. Because I don’t feel it now. I don’t see it now. Donna, I don’t know how you feel, but I, I, I know that there are a lot of people working really hard on various committees. And under the previous ministerial ministers that we’ve had the last ten years, results are not optimal. So, you know, can we as a disability sector get together and agree that, you know, it’s time to do things a little bit differently? And what does that actually mean? So my hope is that this kind of a moment that’s woken us up by not having a cabinet minister named after after, you know, our responsible for our sector. Maybe it’ll challenge us to do things a little bit differently and to make sure that our messaging is cohesive. It’s direct and it’s unified at every possible step.

Donna Jodhan: Maybe it’s inadvertently going to unite the, you know, Canadians with disabilities. It’s it’s it’s sort of a wake up call. Wake up, wake up. You know, it’s time, folks. I mean, I agree with you. Things are not moving fast enough. And if we want to help the kids of the future, man, we we got to get going.

Screen Reader: About the future.

Angela Bonfanti: Yeah. And I think, you know, look what happened with with the president south of the border and what. Yeah. You know, his what he did inadvertently. You know, brought together premiers and provinces like never before. And we’re still talking about very real barriers to interprovincial trade that are that are soon to be coming down. Maybe this is maybe this, that maybe it was a miss. Maybe it was a mess because it’s included in somebody’s mandate. But I really hope and I have already seen in the last little while how quickly the disability groups look. We don’t always get along. We have we have fights over wordsmithing. It happens. I understand words are important, but, you know, at the end of the day, if we now know that there’s a government that’s giving us a window, not a door, then we have to be more succinct. We have to be more united, and we have to be as strong as possible to agree on what it is we’re looking for. And if we can get agreement and make it easier for the minister to make a decision, then we will become a top priority in that portfolio, not the one that gets left off the title.

Donna Jodhan: So what’s the next step for you?

Screen Reader: What does that look?

Angela Bonfanti: Are we with respect to the government and the Prime Minister? Yes. Yeah. So we’ve we’ve requested a meeting with the Prime Minister and the minister, the minister, Patty, with all the disability groups. That was just done today. I will be following up in a letter shortly. We’ve just let the disability organizations know that we’ve been working with that. We’ve made that request right. And I think that’s that the next.

Screen Reader: Step of leadership.

Angela Bonfanti: With the minister and the prime minister you know, really receiving every assurance that this this file is going to be actioned, that the disability action Plan was not just, you know, writing on a piece of paper in, in a platform. And we’d like to hear from them how they plan on auctioning their plan, which, as I said earlier, I think is a good plan. And if implemented properly.

Screen Reader: It’s like.

Angela Bonfanti: A good spot.

Donna Jodhan: Sounds good to me. We’ll see. So I apologize if you can hear me reading off my questions to you.

Screen Reader: Okay.

Donna Jodhan: So.

Screen Reader: Do with over a decade. Can you hear this vision for.

Screen Reader: The organization involved?

Donna Jodhan: So that’s the second question.

Angela Bonfanti: Let me this is about the vision for the organizations.

Donna Jodhan: I read it.

Screen Reader: Again about the future of I don’t know About.

Screen Reader: The down arrow. Due with over a decade at Cnib.

Screen Reader: How was your vision for the organization.

Screen Reader: Involved?

Donna Jodhan: Did you get.

Angela Bonfanti: It? What are your top priorities now as CEO in this critical moment for disability? Yes.

Donna Jodhan: So what are your priorities, Angela?

Angela Bonfanti: I have so many. You know.

Donna Jodhan: Donna, you have a lot.

Angela Bonfanti: I know I do, but that’s as I should. It’s it’s a big organization. It’s a huge community. The priorities have to be big. So when I first joined Cnib, my focus was on helping to build impactful programs for people within our community. And so over time, that vision has, of course, evolved. We’ve learned a lot and we’ve improved what already existed. We’ve reimagined what’s actually possible today. So at CEO today, I see senior role not just as a service provider, but also as a driver of systemic change. So, you know, we’re not here to patch holes in an inaccessible system anymore. Those days are over. We’re here to reshape them altogether. So I think that starts with our strategic commitments. We’re focused on ensuring that children with silos don’t just, you know, get by, that they actually thrive. You know, we’re challenging outdated attitudes and expectations about blindness. I don’t have to tell you, people don’t understand the capabilities of somebody who is blind. We have work to do there. And we’re working to ensure that every journey, whether it’s physical, digital or societal, is safe, accessible and seamless. But we can’t do that alone. We need our allies. We know a big part of my leadership today is about lending, lending and expertise to empower organizations to include accessibility and inclusion design from the start.

Angela Bonfanti: Like you and I, you and I both know how important that is and that it includes absolutely everybody from startups to policy makers to corporate partners to, you know, other public influencers. We we’ve got to tell more stories, and we’ve got to grow the allies that are currently in our pool. So I’ll give you a great example. So my dad I don’t know if you if you haven’t my dad got the the smart glasses. Recently. Oh, great. Truly game changing technology, of course. All right. Have anybody who is blind in mind at the time, but they’re they’re making up for it. We’re having conversations with with meta and my eyes about about what’s next. But but so my father had I had it for about six, 6 or 7 weeks. Worked perfectly fine. Thought, you know what? This is great. This eliminates so many other gadgets that I have. They look good. They’re lights. You know he’s going to get he’s going to get them transition so they can be a bit darker in the sun because he has a bit of light that he can block out that sun. But then out of nowhere the glasses stopped working.

Donna Jodhan: What?

Angela Bonfanti: Yeah. Oh.

Donna Jodhan: Oh, dear.

Angela Bonfanti: This truly is so. And what I found frustrating. So, for whatever reason, his eye enabled. His eye function was disabled on his device. We could not get it to turn back on. It was gone. It just poof disappeared from the menu. The device menu. And when I found incredibly frustrating, was that as soon as you ran into an issue, there was absolutely nowhere to turn.

Donna Jodhan: Oh, yes, I hear you.

Angela Bonfanti: No interface design with blindness in mind. They had a they had bots that you had to speak to a certain number of times before you could actually request to speak to somebody live. Somebody who is blind cannot navigate turn by turn instructions. If you’re using voiceover anyway, you just can’t navigate all the screens at the same time because it’ll shut the bot before it opens up the screen, right? And so, you know, I was like, I just need to talk to someone. Then you’d get someone that would send you an email that was a live person or, you know, as, as as much as I could see and they would just, they would give you advice, then you’d respond to it, and then the next day they’d have somebody else picking up the conversation and giving you the same advice. You were saying it was madness. It was absolutely madness. And I thought, okay, you know, great that we have this technology, but accessibility cannot be an afterthought. It needs to be embedded from the beginning. If they if these developers have sat around a table one day and said, you know, this is going to help, you know, 2 million people in Canada alone with blindness, I think they would have thought about, well, what happens when when something goes wrong. And so I are. So then in my view, that’s a great opportunity for Cnib to be in the to help with the training and the troubleshooting and the report back to the developers, you know, to to have that, that that’s that line into into meta.

Angela Bonfanti: And so so I, you know, it was it was an opportunity, but it was after very two weeks of a very frustrating experience. So what ended up happening? We still don’t know what happened. Oh, no. Anyone’s listening that has this issue. If your eye function disappears on your smart glasses it it’s likely connected to your Facebook profile. Even though you have everything turned on and enabled from an AI standpoint. For whatever reason, my father was shut out, so we had to upload my mother’s Facebook account, and now they work fine. So, you know, it’s it’s these mysteries. So our priorities are about, you know, equality and innovation, but they’re also about collaboration. So about it’s about stepping into leadership and not just for our own programs, but to help to raise the bar across the board, even with these big, you know, mega, mega tech companies. Because when accessibility, you know, if it’s built from the start, absolutely everyone benefits. So we’re trying to take lemons and turning them into lemonade. And every way, every step forward. If I can’t have these great things being created, that could be changed. Game changers, members of our community and then have them ripped away from us, right? With no with no reason. It just it’s maddening. It doesn’t make any sense.

Donna Jodhan: What part do you think the medical community could help? You know, I find that so many, you know, like ophthalmologists or optometrists or even medical folks, doctors especially like they seem so unaware of the capability and ability of of blind and vision impaired folks. And I find like, you know, like they just don’t give us enough importance. They don’t believe that we can do anything. I mean, I remember once going to an ophthalmologist and he said to me, in my lifetime, I will never have a medical solution. And I said to him, doctor, is this what you would tell your daughter? No answer. And I said, please, would you tell your daughter this? And he couldn’t answer. So what do you think? Or how do you think the medical community can help us out here?

Angela Bonfanti: Well, you know, there’s so many ways the medical community can help us out here. We we hear from far too many parents in particular, that when their child is diagnosed with with significant vision loss. It is often delivered as a death sentence and their child’s life is going to be limited. It’s going to be minimal. They are not going to have friends. They are never going to go to school. You know this we can help. And I and I don’t think medical experts are doing this on purpose to make sure that somebody lives in isolation their whole life. It’s just that they we have a very busy system. They’re pumping patients out quickly. They’re giving you the information. You’re moving on, giving you the information. They’re moving on. So we we are working closely with the medical community and our partners, for example, at Vision Loss Rehabilitation Canada, who have that direct relationship with the ophthalmologists and the and the and the family physicians in particular, to say, you know, there if there is significant, significant vision loss diagnosis, you have a responsibility to refer to those who are in the vision loss adjustment space. You have a responsibility to not make any conclusive comments about the person, the child’s future, and you have a responsibility to to know what’s out there for these individuals. So, you know, I start it starts with doctors. We’re working really hard to see if we can get into things like grand rounds for ophthalmologists and in front of the College of Physicians and Surgeons and the, the College of of of Family Doctors. Sorry, I messed that up. I forget the college name, I apologize, but we’re getting in front so we can get to medical students early on, so it’s a no brainer.

Angela Bonfanti: And just all you need to know is that there are resources out there for somebody who is who has lost a significant amount of vision, whether eye condition or accident. And there are there’s help out there and that’s all people need to know. And then and I think if we can do a better job working with our allied organizations to help people navigate this space once, once and once the diagnosis has, has been delivered, you know, because it’s hard as somebody who’s who, you know, there are programs in place provincially, Federally for children, for youth, for adults living with disabilities. They are almost impossible to navigate on your own, especially if you have vision loss. So I think I think there’s a lot of awareness and leadership. And I’d also love to see, you know, our medical space is more navigable. You know, it would be great to have technology that internal navigation and wayfinding technology that will help you get to whatever room you need to get to in a hospital in particular, or a medical building. You know, sighted people walk around lost all the time. I can’t even imagine what it’s like for someone trying to navigate the space with a cane or a guide dog. So the medical community has got a big you know, there’s a big opportunity there, I think, for us to do more meaningful work and to educate more frequently so that they understand that they have a part in the journey. And it doesn’t end with diagnosis. It actually starts with diagnosis.

Screen Reader: Okay, great. All right.

Donna Jodhan: Okay. Let’s go to the next question. Can you hear this.

Screen Reader: Global backlash and Canadian.

Screen Reader: Leadership.

Screen Reader: As we’ve seen a troubling rollback of DUI policies in parts of the world, especially the U.S.. What role do you see Canada and IBM playing in resisting that trend and building something better? New notifications.

Donna Jodhan: So did you get that?

Angela Bonfanti: I got it. Your cohost is awesome, Donna. You should give it a name. It should be. It should be your co-host.

Donna Jodhan: Well, you know, I don’t like this because I see you can hear me as I arrow down, and I have to fix this.

Angela Bonfanti: It’s not, it’s not. It’s not bothersome to me at all.

Donna Jodhan: Thank you very.

Angela Bonfanti: Much. So I think Canada has a real unique opportunity, and I believe a responsibility, quite frankly, to lead by example. It can’t just be symbolic. It has to be backed up by action, by policy, and by willingness to change the status quo. So I think that we’re focused on making a building sort of made in Canada solutions. But the unique Realities, you know, that our community faces. So one of the clearest examples is, is our Come to Work program, our national flagship employment program. It is helping, you know, you know, almost 2000 job seekers who are blind to date in the last few years blind, deaf, blind, low vision with inclusive employers and the unemployment and unemployment rate for the population is still hovers above 50%. So we’re pushing for, you know, the resistance in the global Dei backlash means that going it’s going beyond employment. So it means making sure accessibility is treated as a baseline expectation and not an afterthought. Here’s the thing. Here’s the thing. Yet again, if it comes in after, it’s not going to be very helpful. So you know, not Cnib I’m proud that we’re dedicated to advocating for inclusive infrastructure, for equitable access to things like deafblind services and transit and greater representation of people with disabilities at decision making tables. So it’s a long journey, though, Donna. You know, it doesn’t happen overnight.

Angela Bonfanti: So we’re pushing for accessibility standards to be embedded across all levels of government policy, not just through legislation, but through everyday practice, because what inclusion is seen as optional, it becomes the first thing to go when the road gets bumpy and look at where we are today. Edi accessibility has been seen as a nice to have in my view across the board. And now I’m not saying there aren’t companies and government representatives that believe in it strongly, but as a society it’s not embedded in our DNA the way that it should be. That is why we are where we are today and that is why we get missed in things like cabinet appointments. It’s just not ingrained. So we have to work harder to make sure that we claim our stake, and that we let people know that we’re here to stay and that we are not to be missed because we we when things are made accessible, so much good happens everywhere else. So I think it’s a critical moment. I think the world is shifting and we have to double down and not scale back our commitments to equity, accessibility and human rights. Canada. I think Canada can be a global leader here, but only for bold enough to act like one. And that’s my message to the Prime Minister.

Screen Reader: Now.

Donna Jodhan: Here’s my question. Okay, I, I wonder because the Prime Minister inadvertently signaled that, you know, we may not be important or whatever it is. Do you think that government departments and federally governed entities will take this to mean that? Well, you know, we should be slacking off and we don’t have to adhere to the Accessible Canada Act. Do you think that they will take this as an indicator that this is not important? Yes. The Prime Minister has to fight many more priorities. You know, but what do you think companies and government departments are thinking now?

Angela Bonfanti: Well, I think it’s a bit of a So I think there’s a lot happening right now. I think, I think being on the hill is a very, very busy thing. I think that there are a lot of priorities coming out. Government officials left, right and centre. I think that if we do our job as a community and call to the public light as much as possible that we are here to stay, we are need to be prioritized and we hold the government accountable. I don’t think we’re in this space where irreparable damage has has as occurred. I don’t think we’re there yet. I think if we were being ignored, I think if we weren’t having phone calls, I think, you know, I’m like I said, we’re seeing an effort to say, no, no, no, no, no. You know, I’m sorry that it’s on the title, but I should we assure you it’s going to be many letters and that this is a this is a priority for the government. So I think there’s time to to bounce back. I’m hoping it’s it’s a very, you know, quick whoopsie. And and I don’t know what that’s a technical term. And then that they, they turn around and they do what’s right because we, you know, we can’t go back ten years now and start with nothing. I’m sorry. I just I just don’t think that’s possible. So I’m hoping the government is willing to move and to make a statement. And I think that’s the the right statement is here. Is the minister responsible for persons with disability? It’s in her title. Here is her mandate letter. Disability community that is your champion next to the Prime Minister. And as soon as we have that messaging, I think we can we can kind of reverse any messaging or any innuendos that people can draw from last week’s cabinet appointment announcement.

Donna Jodhan: Now the throne speech is coming up on May 27th.

Screen Reader: Yes.

Donna Jodhan: Do you think there’s an opportunity for Prime Minister Carney to put any or slip anything in there that would reassure Canadians with disabilities, like, is that possible, you think?

Angela Bonfanti: I mean, it’s possible. I just wonder when you, you know, I’m not part of the team there. I don’t I know the King will be there. I expect these these speeches are political and really send a message to other countries and send a message to Canadians. So is there an opportunity? Yes. We are pushing really hard for that to to for the Prime minister to find his voice when it comes to people with disabilities. And that would be a that would be great. But even if it does make its way into the speech from the throne and then we still don’t have, you know, a minister that’s that’s called out, rightfully so, and it’s off the side of someone’s desk. I would argue it didn’t do anything. So it’ll be interesting to see what happens. What happens next week? I will be in Ottawa. And you know, knocking on as many doors on the hill as possible to yeah make as much noise as we can that we we cannot be ignored. We need to be addressed. And if we are ignored, that’s probably the worst thing that you can do to this community right now. So find your voice and start talking about us.

Donna Jodhan: Hear, hear. And if I can do anything to help you, I’m here.

Angela Bonfanti: I hate that, Donna. You are. You are in our in our tool of weapons.

Screen Reader: Oh.

Donna Jodhan: Good lord. Oh, no. No, no.

Donna Jodhan: All right, let’s see what our next question is.

Screen Reader: You mean right? All right. Arrow. Justice of accessibility. Arrow. Or many worry that accessibility is still seen as a left tick. Nice to have rather than a down arrow. Human right. How do we shift the public conversation to reflect the urgency and down arrow justice of accessibility work?

Donna Jodhan: I think you answered a lot of this, but do you have any final thoughts on this?

Angela Bonfanti: Do I think we shift the questions around how we shift public conversation to reflect urgency? We shift it by telling the truth painfully, painfully, and powerfully. Telling the truth is not always easy. I know that isn’t a favor or a feature. It’s a fundamental right. Without it, people are excluded from their workforce, from their education, from their healthcare, and from everyday life in their community. So that is the reality. Exclusion is still happening every day. I’m sorry Canada. I’m sorry Canadians, but we have a problem and we need to fix this by changing the attitudes of those who are in policy decisions that do not have a clue about the disability community, and its 2023 analysis of Fortune Global 500 companies revealed that while over 92% had diversity and inclusion policies and 66.1% referenced equity. Only 16% even mentioned accessibility. So 92% had diverse diversity and inclusion policies. 66% of those referenced equity and 16.16% mentioned accessibility. That means 84% of major organizations are still overlooking accessibility in their policies altogether. And so I think what’s happened here is, you know, with what’s happened in the States with, you know, E.D. and quote, over wokeness and all this stuff coming from their president. It’s dangerous to us, right? Because we get brushed in the EDI stroke and some of the political motivations to move away from EDI, that makes sense for the president in his own world, in the US, have nothing to do with accessibility for people with persons with disabilities. So. So I think that what is political, an overly political issue that is driving a certain sentiment in the US around diversity, in particular gender. All of that rhetoric that is just noise, quite frankly, that just absolutely nothing but hurt us as as a society.

Angela Bonfanti: It has captured accessibility and it has been thrown out the window in many cases in the states. So we have to focus on bringing it back. Eddie is important for Canada. For the love of whoever you believe in. You know, this is this is a this doesn’t get any more diverse in this country. But I think that we have to call it back, and we have to not separate ourselves from Eddie. But we have to make it abundantly clear that accessibility affects everyone as a matter of your race, your gender, your sexual orientation. You know, your your, your, your any other parts of your intersectional identity. You can become a member of the disability community tomorrow, regardless of who you are, where you’ve come from, and who you identify as. And so that has yet to really make a statement. I haven’t heard that statement yet. So that’s our job. Our job is to say, you know, we cannot afford to go backwards, but we especially cannot afford to lose on the accessibility side because it affects absolutely everybody in this country. This is not a niche issue. So I think, you know, we’re focused on reframing the narrative. We’re showing that accessibility is about freedom. It’s freedom to move around the world. Freedom to make choices, freedom to belong. So the more we groundwork this work in real stories it gets and the more impact we’re going to have, and the harder I hope. I hope the harder it will become for people to ignore what’s at stake in the way that they’re ignoring us today.

Donna Jodhan: I often wonder if I have two thoughts here, and I want I wanted to get your opinion on this. One is that people are afraid to think of disability because they are afraid that if they became a person with a disability, it would be traumatic, or they only think of disability when they are either directly affected or one of their family members is. I mean, my mom and I often have this conversation and you know, what are your thoughts on this?

Angela Bonfanti: It’s so. It’s such a personalized journey. It’s different for everyone. You know, I think I can talk about the blindness space in particular. I, you know, was with a family last week in Nova Scotia, in Halifax with an eight year old boy named cam who is blind. He’s got a buddy dog from our guide dog program. He uses his cane. He’s he’s our he’s our campaign director for Cnib Pub Crawl right now. It’s our annual fundraiser to raise more money for our guide dog program. And, you know, it’s it’s the father or the brother there. Rick was the father’s is the father’s name. He’s like, you know, people just assume that disability has to look like something. And cam just looks like cam. Eight year old boy. It’s like it’s it’s you’re only disabled until you’re not disabled. Until until somebody tells you you are. Is what he said. And that sticks. And I think that’s the opportunity is why do we why do we have to focus on much on what doesn’t get done? We have to focus on the fact that we are people that happen to be living with diverse lived experiences some physical, some cognitive, some sensory related, but all we’re all still the same people trying to navigate this really complicated world during a really terrible time. And so I can speak from the blindness perspective. I think that we I’m so proud of there are a number of young blind advocates that will use blind as an, as, as part of their identifier language. I haven’t seen that before. I think when I, you know, when I first started at Cnib, we avoided the B word at all.

Donna Jodhan: Yeah. Yes.

Angela Bonfanti: It was about, you know, legally blind, partially sighted vision loss. You know, you can you name it, you’ve you’ve been, you know, you you’ve been part of all the cycles here, and so we can’t get away from the word if someone chooses that, they don’t want to identify as blind because of the stigma that comes to it, then that’s their choice. But I’m seeing on my end more and more people, especially in our young adults, saying, no, I’m blind. Here’s how I put on makeup. I’m blind. Guess what? I have a regular job. I’m blind. Guess what? My boyfriend broke up with me like anybody else does. I’m like, so? So I think, you know, the more stories we have that are basically, you know, so what? I’m blind and I and I have this and I don’t as I think what happens sometimes is we we in the past we have over we’ve made celebrities of people living their regular jobs. And I hear this from the community all the time. It’s like I’m just a regular person. I happen to live with sight loss. Why am I a superhero? For being able to put on my pants on, you know, one leg at.

Donna Jodhan: Night.

Angela Bonfanti: Or in a family? And I hear that on the other end. You don’t want to underplay it because vision loss is a nuisance. You know it can beat blindness. Can be. Can can be. Can be a nuisance. Can be a difficult thing to live through. If you don’t have the right tools, it can be extremely destructive. So you don’t want to, you know, underplay it either. So you’ve got to find this, this, this balance where it’s like, you know, there you have the right to identify any way that you want. I think that we’ve got to find a balance between over glorifying and, and, and underrepresented because it’s no big deal. It is a big deal. Absolutely. You you you you. If the world doesn’t understand the fact that you’re capable, you will have a very difficult life. And so we have to keep telling stories about the donnas and the Cam’s and the others that that are going on living life with blindness and going blind. And their, their life actually doesn’t look any different than yours, other than some accessible tech, maybe a cane. But but the life, the lived experience is essentially the same. So how do we find this moment to tell more stories so that people can stop focusing on disabilities and just focus on people?

Donna Jodhan: What do you think of the difference between visually impaired and vision impaired? Do you think there is a difference? What are your thoughts on this?

Angela Bonfanti: It depends on the person. I’ve heard so many, so many iterations of this genre. I don’t think people are trying to say going blind, that they can’t see very well, and they’re finding other ways to use words that, you know, are are more, you know, in line. We have a language guide. You know, we we, we start with, you know, if you want to identify as being vision impaired, you know, if that’s if that’s the best way to describe what you see then and how you feel, that’s fine. You know, visually impaired, I, I don’t think I, I just think these these words have sort of morphed throughout the years. I don’t think it’s been with a particularly profound amount of intention. You know, legally blind. What does that mean? Are people? There are people that are illegally blind. You know, there’s just there’s all this all this jargon in this language, but comes with us. It’s it’s it’s I get it. But and I don’t think we all have to agree on the term. I think what we have to agree on and what I, what I’d like to start introducing is that blindness is a spectrum. It’s a range. And people live all over that range or that spectrum, whatever. Whatever we choose, we use, we choose to use. So, you know, you can be on the low end of the range. And just recently adjusting to vision loss still have a degree of sight, you know, starting to go blind and then all the way to the end of the spectrum where you’re totally blind and you’ve been born that way, and this has been your life. That’s what blindness looks like. So I think if we can get away from worrying so much about the words we use to describe an individual’s lived experience and spend more time on the journey that somebody with living with blindness. It’s going to be on that. I think we’ll do ourselves more, more good than harm.

Donna Jodhan: Or you could take the David Lipsky approach and I quote, I’m blind, I’m blind and I’m blind. What else do you want to know?

Angela Bonfanti: He’s great, isn’t he?

Donna Jodhan: That is David. That is David’s answer. You know.

Angela Bonfanti: David is a legend, and David has done so much for this community at his. And he is just such an amazing advocate. But he can’t do it alone. He’ll tell you himself, we’ve got to all sing on the same song sheet if we want government to listen to us and and not not on the nuanced things government’s going to mess up. There are going to be all kinds of we’re going to use that technical term again. Whoopsies. You know that are, that are, that are done unconsciously. We’re not this is not the first or the last time something like this is going to happen. But if we can agree on the big stuff, if we can find ways to agree to make it easier for government to work with us and to recognize the allies and that are at the table and to really create a collaboration, then I think will be in a in a better space. I don’t know, maybe I’m being optimistic, but I, I just feel like the, the, the community sees us in some ways and at times not always as fragmented. Yes, but we don’t always get along. We don’t always agree. That’s okay. But when it matters, you know what we need to.

Donna Jodhan: I think we’re seen as often beating up each other. You know, get out of my way. And this and that and the other. But I am hoping that the circumstances that are taking place right now, that this will unite us and bring us together. I think the Cnib is in a perfect position to, you know, do this. And I know that you have thoughts on this and we can talk about that later on when you are, you know, are ready to do so. But I will tell you based with, you know with in the case of David was I worked with David for two years on Barrier Free Canada. It was an amazing experience. I learned so much from this man. I mean, you know, it was either his way or the highway. But you know what? I was there to learn, and I learned. If you don’t want to work, don’t go to David. If you want to work and you want to learn, suck it up and work with it. That’s what I would say.

Angela Bonfanti: I think that’s fair. You know, I think David has a lot of a lot of success in this particular. He’s got the scars to prove it. Yeah. The man has not done this unscathed. He’s still a very, you know, influential powerhouse in the community. But I think, you know, we’ve got to find different ways to work with each other. It’s because it’s not just David. It’s, you know, it’s there’s so many other blindness organizations that exist that I know Cnib has cast a shadow on in the past. I’m not interested in that anymore. Yes. We’re we’re we’re probably the biggest organization in the blindness space. That’s okay. It doesn’t mean that we can’t play nice. It doesn’t mean that we can’t play in the same sandbox. It doesn’t mean that we don’t. We have to agree on everything. But as CEO here, you have a voice and I will listen to you. And ultimately, you can hold me accountable to whatever decision that I helped to make alongside with my team and my board. But we gotta get ourselves together. We can’t all agree to one thing and then have members of the community, you know, speaking from the side of their mouth, doing other things.

Angela Bonfanti: And that that has happened in the past, right? We we we we notionally agree. And then something we find some press release or some radio interview where it’s like, that’s not at all what we agreed to say. So I think, you know, I like what you know, I think I think I like what you’re saying, you know, could this be the, the, the awakening and maybe it is. Maybe it. Maybe it means that sometimes we have to put perfection aside, and we have to be okay with being 80% where we want to be. Just to drive something through the line. Because getting 100% across every organization in the blindness space and then in the pan disability space is absolutely impossible. And I think that might be one of the reasons why we haven’t advanced as much as I would have liked to have seen us as a country since, since the adoption or the passing of the Accessible Canada Act. Maybe. I think maybe I’m being harsh. Maybe I’m being unfair. I’m just.

Donna Jodhan: I don’t think.

Angela Bonfanti: So. My my watching from the sidelines before becoming CEO. And you know what? I want to do something about it now that I’m in this position.

Donna Jodhan: Well, here’s your opportunity. And, you know, I think what concerns me personally is that we’ve lost some really meaningful advocates in the past few years. Like Chris Stark, I don’t know if you knew Chris Stark. Yeah, this was my mentor. And Chris taught me a hell of a lot. We’ve lost John Rae. For better or for worse, John. You know, John would like the fire punch. Yeah, he would light the fire and stand back and laugh, waiting to see who would want to put put it out. Right. I mean, you know, you either loved him or you hated him, but he was there. He was a long time advocate.

Angela Bonfanti: So my perspective, that’s for sure. And, you know, and we don’t need everybody in the community to agree with us all the time. And I know we’ve had we’ve had a bit of a past. Yes, maybe has gone through a lot. It’s 108 years old. Show me a single 108 year old that hasn’t burned a few bridges in their lives or made a mistake. But I think what this team is willing to say, we hear you. We accept it. You know, where appropriate. We’re sorry and let’s move on together because we’re not going away. We’re here to stay. Blindness is growing rapidly. More and more people are identifying because maybe they’re feeling safer, too. Maybe they’re seeing more examples. People who are blind that are living on with their lives. I think for me, you know, the future I’ve got, you know, 5 to 10 years in this world, that’s that’s probably, you know, that my, my lifespan here is CEO. I, I want to help to become a global leader and accessibility. I want cnib role to be very clear. You know, in that transformation, I want I want to help to to find a Canada that that needs to invest in the next generation of changemakers because that’s it. That’s the other thing. We have a lot of people we’ve named a few that have been lifelong advocates that are, you know, nearing the end of their career, past the end of their careers into retirement. Where is youth? Where are the young voices that are going to build tomorrow, and how do we get them to understand that they need to work in allyship with those who have been around for a longer time and have to have the have the burns and the scratches to prove their, their, you know, their time in the advocacy space.

Angela Bonfanti: But how do we get them to invest And lead some of these conversations because sometimes it’s the same. Same people. So I’d love to get a sense of how we we can empower young people with disabilities not just to participate, but to lead. I think their voices, their lived experience and their ideas, they have to be able to shape the future from from the outset. So I think we’re I’d like to see us committed to finding more pathways for youth leadership and co-creation in this space, because I think that’s what’s what. That’s what’s missing today. I see them on social media. They’ve got a great story to tell. They’re very effective, but they’re absent in the change making and the policy making space. And I’d like to do what we can. Not just see any of you by itself, but other organizations. Bring them out of the woods and bring them into leadership roles to help drive some of this narrative. Is this conversation. Donna is not going to be over. You know, after we speak to the Prime Minister’s office for the next time, if this is this will be ongoing Going and living in perpetuity. So have we found our advocates that are youth today that aren’t going to be young youth for much longer, and that’ll be, you know, in jobs, doing their parts, running Canada one day in the not too distant future. I don’t know that we have you know.

Donna Jodhan: You stole a question from me because this is one of going to be one of my final questions would be, what would be your advice to anyone who wants to be a leader? And like for me, I think one of the first things, and you know, about my transitioning to a new World program, I’ll speak about that off, off the record. They have to believe in themselves first. They have to believe that I can fly. I can flap my wings and fly. I am somebody, I have something to give. Right. And then you build up their confidence and their independence. But I want to know from you. What advice do you have to our future leaders?

Angela Bonfanti: The advice I have for whatever accounts is to join us. Your voice matters. I don’t care if you’re not a policy major. You don’t understand how government works. That’s all teachable. But your voice not being part of what we’re doing today is going to hurt the outcomes of the type of society that we believe you deserve. So join the fight now and so that we don’t have to fight forever. Thus. I think there’s a home for you here. There are mentors. There are people with lots of experience and expertise that are happy to, to make sure that you have what you need to be part of this, this movement. But that’s what it is we’re trying to to instill here is a movement. So join the movement. It’s happening right now, and without your voice, you could easily be left behind. We’re only stronger by the numbers. And we need to build them right now. Because I know you’re out there. So if you’re listening in your youth, join the movement. Find us. Find your voice. Let’s get some change going. Because I think it’s. It’s right there. It’s at our fingertips. I can feel it.

Donna Jodhan: And how do you let them know what you’ve just told me? What? How do they hear this message? How are you going to post this message.

Angela Bonfanti: All over social media? I will continue to do that. My Instagram LinkedIn you know, the, the all the places where the cool cats go to find information. I’m constantly pushing this message out. And the good news is that we have several youth that are part of our youth council and part of our local boards and what have you in our programs that are that are pushing this messaging out to. So it’s more than just me. I think I think youth who are blind. Need to hear from other youth at this place is a good place to start and that you know you’re treated well and you get a voice and you get to do really great things. So I think our job is taking the message that I’ve just shared with you and making sure that all of our youth and those who have a platform are armed with it and invite, invite others to join.

Donna Jodhan: Do you think our youth is ready? Do you think you know? Do we have to work on massaging their attitudes?

Angela Bonfanti: I think it depends on the youth. I am super impressed by the caliber of youth that come our way. I mean, my goodness, they. They are articulate and convict and speak with conviction. And those that that are early on in their journey that, you know, need a bit of exposure. The good news is we’ve got lots of ways to train and to to train people up. But there’s a fire inside. Every single youth that’s been given that diagnosis that’s been told that their role is going to be limited. And that’s been fighting it ever since that I can see unleashed when given these opportunities on various community platforms and others. So I’m I we need more more stories, more voices to to really create the impact that we want.

Donna Jodhan: What are you parting words as we come to the end of this podcast? What what what advice do you have for for Canadians with disabilities?

Angela Bonfanti: Oh, that’s a big question.

Donna Jodhan: I told.

Angela Bonfanti: You. What advice do I, I, I just the advice I, I mean, it’s not even advice. My, my thoughts on this is that they’re don’t give up now. The world is doing something very silly that I hope will boomerang back to its home. I don’t want us to see it as being deflated. I think the advice I have is to is to see what’s happening in the world, and to take responsibility and do your part, do something about it. There are some advocates, Donald, that will say, you know what? I advocate for myself every day. Extra clients that will say that I advocate every day, and I don’t want to advocate anymore for systemic change. So I think you do it fine. Then there are others that say, no, I don’t want it to be a voice. I need it to be my voice, and that’s fine as well. So wherever you land on that.

Screen Reader: Notification.

Angela Bonfanti: Advocacy just find your way to do your part, because there are 2 million people out there that identify with having severe and prolonged vision loss. Where are these voices? Join us. Like this is this is now the time to find our moment. Don’t walk away and expect someone else or the government having figured this out for you, or that it’s not worth your time. It absolutely is, because we’re on to something, and I hope in the next few years, you know, when when I’m, you know, when I’m on my way out and somebody else is coming on the way in, I want to look back to this interview and say, my gosh, look how far we’ve come.

Donna Jodhan: I hope and pray and I’m very, very confident that you as a leader will make a difference. I mean, I will never forget the day you showed up in court when there you were sitting at the back of another. Angela. You came. You know, and this was a big change because in previous years you would not see Cnib participating in things like this. So that is a huge change. And I hope and pray that this continues. I am confident that we will catch the attention of the Prime Minister and his people, and that we would help to make a difference. And it’s not just words alone. We got to support what we do and we got to work with you, not work against you.

Angela Bonfanti: Well, I mean, I think that there’s a good foundation here of lots of forever changes that have taken place. I think now our time is to open up those doors, invite our allies in. We don’t need to be the ones in charge. We’re happy to avail our resources as long as it gets done. I don’t really care whether cannabis brand is on it or not. I just need to see change. And I think maybe in the past we kind of got stuck around the hierarchy of things, and I’m not that kind of leader. It’s not that time anymore. Maybe it made sense at the time. It doesn’t anymore. So I’d like to grow the sea and I’d be tend to fit thousands more than it does today, because that’s I think unleashing those voices is what’s going to make Canada more accessible and more inclusive for everyone.

Donna Jodhan: Angela, it was a privilege and a pleasure to have had you on my podcast, and I do thank you for having taken the time to be with us today.

Angela Bonfanti: The pleasure is all mine. As I said, thank you for bringing me and congratulations on the success of your podcast. I think you have a really great story to tell. Keep keep doing what you’re doing, and I’m happy to come back or have a member of my team come. We didn’t even talk about Cnib programs today, and there are lots of them, so.

Donna Jodhan: I don’t know how much time we have left. But if you want.

Angela Bonfanti: To, we don’t have.

Donna Jodhan: Any. It’s oh, oh, darn. Well, then we’ll have you back because I want to hear more about your program.

Angela Bonfanti: Or a member of our team. You know, I’ve got a number of members of we have a really good chunk of our team that has the lived experience that I think would be great talking to you about their program and about their journey. So, you know, just let me know the word and we’ll we’ll get somebody and myself back.

Donna Jodhan: I’ll have Erin arrange it with you. But thank you so much, Angela, and have a great evening.

Angela Bonfanti: You as well. Donna, thank you so much.

Donna Jodhan: All right. Bye for now.

Angela Bonfanti: We’ll talk to you soon.

Donna Jodhan: Yeah. Bye bye. Bye bye.

Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna. Hand at gmail.com. Until next time.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.