Remarkable World Commentary Episode #95: Ask Advocate Donna

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In this instructive episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan presents her recurring “Ask Advocate Donna” segment, opening with two reflective word-game pairings she invites listeners to ponder: defensive versus offensive, and sympathy versus empathy. She resists treating either as an either-or choice, arguing that a seasoned advocate must learn when each posture or response is appropriate rather than committing to one. She frames the whole episode with her guiding ethos, borrowed in spirit from a “let’s make it better than possible” sentiment, that advocacy means refusing to settle for merely acceptable outcomes.

The heart of the episode is three listener-submitted scenarios, each dissected through the same four-part lens of what advocacy is, who gets involved, why it is necessary, and how to begin. A woman using a wheelchair, Lucy, is turned away from a concert hall officials claim cannot accommodate her; a boy, Hamid, is denied entry to his condo pool because a lifeguard fears being unable to communicate with him in English; and a blind woman is told a call-center job was “just filled,” then bluntly informed she could not be hired because of her vision impairment, which Donna labels outright discrimination. For each, she models how the affected person and their allies can challenge the gatekeepers, question officials, and enlist support from advocacy organizations. She closes by inviting listener feedback at donnajodhan@gmail.com.

TRANSCRIPT

Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Greetings, everybody. And I’m Donna J. Jordan, your host for the Remarkable World Commentary, my second podcast for June. My goodness, we are up to June. So this podcast is titled Ask Advocate Donna. It’s for the month of June. And what do we have in our bag of tricks for this month for you? I want to start off with this. My favorite quote is this. Speak in such a way that others would want to listen to you and listen in such a way that others would want to speak to you. I truly believe in this quotation. I also have something new to add for you. And it is this. Let’s make it better than possible. Let’s not just sit there and say it’s possible. We got to make it better than possible. And I got this term from former prime minister, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who started his term in office in 2015 with that quote. Let’s make it better than possible. So let me start with my favorite word game for your consideration and for your pondering. And it is this defensive or offensive. So many times in an advocate’s career or in an advocate’s journey, they’re faced with these two terms, they are on opposite sides of the spectrum. Okay. Defensive or offensive? Which is it going to be? For me, it is a mixture of both. Learning when to be defensive, learning when to be offensive.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I don’t think one can go either way or, you know, be always being defensive or always being offensive. Now there are some advocates who thrive on being offensive, other advocates who feel that it is necessary to be defensive. For me, I think it’s a mixture of both knowing when to be defensive, knowing when to be offensive. Okay. Here’s another pair of terms for your Consideration, sympathy or empathy. Most people really appreciate when empathy is shown, but in many cases, sympathy is often necessary. Both terms are close in proximity to each other. I believe in both. I believe in showing sympathy as a long time advocate, and I also believe that empathy is necessary as well. Sympathy versus empathy. Which is it going to be? And I think you have to choose the circumstance where you believe that either one is applicable. All right. I’d love to hear your thoughts. So write to me at Donna jordan@gmail.com. That’s GODHAN at g mail.com. Let me know what your thoughts are. I would be really interested to know. Okay. All right. Each month I provide you with stories that I have gathered over the years, or people or listeners and readers send it to me and I share these with you. Here’s the title to the first story. There was a lady in a wheelchair who was denied entry to a concert.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Lucy had gotten had gotten sorry, dressed up for this concert. She really wanted to go. And when she and her friends got to the hall to hand in their tickets for this anticipated concert, Lucy was told that she could not enter the concert area. When she asked why was she being denied entry to the concert, she was told it was because she was in a wheelchair. Just imagine when her friends started to ask questions. The group was told by officials that the hall could not accommodate anyone in a wheelchair. Just imagine. What would you advise Lucy and her friends to do? I know what I would, but I want to know what you would. Okay, so Lucy is being denied entry to a hall. Concert hall? Because she’s in a wheelchair. When her friends ask why, they are told That because the concert hall is not accessible for a person in a wheelchair in these modern days, this is not acceptable in these modern days. This is horrible in these modern days. This is a sad, sad statement for anyone to make. Okay, so what are the points here? The major points. What is advocacy? Advocacy is when something is not right and something needs to be done. And in this case, Lucy being denied entry to the concert hall because it is not set up for a person in a wheelchair and who gets involved in advocacy, Lucy to start with, and then her friends, which is what they did, they started to question the persons at the desk.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The customer reps. The customer agents. Okay. And why is it necessary? Because something is not right to tell a person that you cannot enter a concert hall because it is not set up for a wheelchair or a person in a wheelchair is not right. And how does one get involved in advocacy in this case? Simply look at what Lucy and her friends did. Her friends started to ask questions and challenged, you know, the concert folks, the concert hall officials. That is what advocacy is. That’s how you get involved in advocacy. And when do you do that again? When something is not kosher All right. Okay. Let me go to the second story of the month shared with me by another listener. All right. A boy was denied entry to a swimming pool because he did not speak English. This is Canada, remember? And we have always thrived on the reputation that Canada is an open country to any and everyone entering it or living in it. And Hamid was looking forward to swimming in the pool in his condo complex. And when he got to the swimming pool on this very hot summer’s day, he was told by the lifeguard that he could not go swimming.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, Hamid’s elder brother, Ali, had told the lifeguard that Hamid could not speak English. What would you advise Hamid and Ali to do? You have a younger brother? Hamid doesn’t speak English. His older brother Ali telling the lifeguard just that. And now there is trouble brewing ahead. Okay. What Ali did, I think is the right thing. Ali then took his brother back to their condo and told the parents what was going on. Okay. At first the parents said, well, maybe the lifeguard is correct in that, you know, Hamid doesn’t speak English and there might be a barrier or a communications problem if Hamid were to get into difficulty while swimming. But his brother Ali was there who spoke perfect English. So this is a very tough call. Is a lifeguard correct? In saying that, Hamid would be denied entry because he didn’t speak English? Because they were afraid for their own I wouldn’t say their own jobs, but they were afraid that if Hamid got into trouble, they wouldn’t know how to communicate with him. And they’d have to depend on Ali to help Hamid. What do you think? Okay. So who gets involved in advocacy if this is pushed? Ali and his parents, because Hamid probably knows what is going on, but cannot advocate on his own for himself because he doesn’t speak English.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And why is it necessary? Well, it is necessary if you want to push the case that Hamid is entitled to go swimming, despite the fact that he cannot speak English. So it’s going to be a very interesting discussion between Hamid and Ali and their family, their parents and the lifeguard and his supervisors. Because on the one hand, Hamid should be entitled to go swimming. But on the other hand, because he doesn’t speak English, as you know, how is the lifeguard or how can the lifeguard communicate with him if something is wrong or they need to tell him something? He would need, he would have second hand a second hand opinion from the lifeguard because they’d have to go through Ali. So it’s all a second hand relay to honey from the guards. And is this correct? We don’t know. Only fruitful discussion will determine how to get around this. Right. How do you get involved in this type of advocacy? It’s really the parents who have to start it with Ali’s account. And then they go step by step from there. Really. And when do you get involved in advocacy in this case, if you want to push this matter, if you want to push that, your son Hamid should be given equal access to go swimming. So the parents have to decide what is the best thing to do.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So there you have it. Now let’s go to the third story of the month, again shared by another listener. There we go. So. A blind lady has refused an interview, and she came to us with this story because she wanted it aired. All right. So. Aaron had sent in her resume in response to a call for resumes from a call center. But. When she showed up for the interview and the interviewer noticed that she was vision impaired. She was told that the job was just filled. When. Aaron was at first very perplexed. The job was just filled. When Aaron asked when exactly was it filled? The interviewer took matters into his own hands and told her that she could not be hired because of her vision impairing impairment. Sorry, what would you advise Aaron to do? I know what I would advise Aaron to do. This is not acceptable. Totally unacceptable for any company to tell a prospective or an interviewee But you cannot be interviewed because of your vision impairment. It is down right discrimination. That’s what it is. It’s nothing more. It’s nothing less. Downright discrimination for any company to tell an interviewee or prospective interviewee that you can’t be hired because, or even can’t be interviewed because of your vision impairment. No no no no no no no. Not acceptable. So what is advocacy here? Advocacy is advocating for her rights and her rights.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: She’s entitled to an interview. She’s not entitled to be told that you cannot be interviewed or you cannot be hired because of your vision impairment. That is wrong in this country of Canada and in most developed countries. So who gets involved in advocacy? Aaron to start with, because this directly affects her. She then has to go out there and start the the spade work, the hard work of finding probably agencies of the blind or for the blind get, you know, tell them your story, get on on their case, tell them, not tell them, but seek their not approval, but seek their support in helping you to bring this company to task. And why is it necessary? It’s all because Aaron’s rights have been downright or blatantly infringed upon. Okay. It’s been infringed upon. And like I said, how do you get involved in advocacy? You now have to go out there and attract the attention of others in a meaningful manner. Constructive manner. All right. Again, you get involved in advocacy when because something has not been done properly. Okay. So there you have it. My three stories for the month of June. Please write to me at Donna Jordan. Donnajodhan@gmail.com. Thank you for tuning in to listen to me and have a great rest of the month. Bye for now.

Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.