Remarkable World Commentary Episode #33: Interview with Kerianne Wilson, Leader, Air Canada Accessibility Advisory Group

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In this engaging episode of Remarkable World Commentary, host Donna J. Jodhan sits down with Kerianne Wilson—Air Canada’s point-person for customer accessibility—to explore how Canada’s flag carrier is translating policy into practice for travellers with disabilities. Donna opens by recounting her own advocacy journey before welcoming Kerianne and asking why Air Canada chose to be the first North-American airline to roll out the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower program; Kerianne explains how the simple green-and-yellow lanyard quietly signals that a customer may need extra patience, easing anxiety for families and solo flyers alike.

The conversation then turns to concrete service upgrades: Kerianne walks listeners through a new in-app tracker that scans mobility aids at five points between the aircraft door and baggage claim, giving wheelchair users real-time peace of mind. She highlights the nationwide deployment of 27 Eagle Lifts for safer, dignity-preserving transfers, plus enhanced staff training focused on respectful communication and soft skills. Finally, the pair discuss Air Canada’s Accessibility Advisory Committee — of which Donna is a member — and how lived-experience feedback is already shaping everything from straw availability to future membership expansion. The result is a candid yet optimistic look at the airline’s “journey of continuous improvement” and a roadmap for other carriers aiming to make flying seamless for blind and disabled travellers worldwide.

TRANSCRIPT:

Podcast Commentator: Greetings.

Podcast Commentator: Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA, invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary here. Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.

Donna J. Jodhan: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I’m Donna Jordan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments. In November 2010, I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just as sighted ones. In July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June 3rd, 2022, I was humbled by Her Late Majesty’s Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I’m not in a courtroom or a committee room or in a pottery studio. You’ll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today’s conversation, let me shine a quick spotlight on today’s guest or changemaker, whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. I’d like to give a warm welcome to Kerianne Wilson of Air Canada. Kerianne is the main to-go of the Air Canada Accessibility Group sorry advisory group on disability issues. Hello, Kerianne.

Kerianne Wilson: Hi, Donna. Thank you so much for having me.

Donna J. Jodhan: It’s my pleasure. And before we start, I just wanted to say that I met Kerianne in December of 2023, when she reached out to me with an invitation to join the Air Canada Disability. I’m always getting this in. I’m locking up with this one. The Air Canada Advisory Group on disability issues. Since then, I’ve had the privilege and pleasure of working with Kerri Anne and her team and other members of the group. So let’s get started. Carry on.

Kerianne Wilson: That sounds perfect, Donna.

Donna J. Jodhan: Okay, so Air Canada was the first American airline to adopt the sunflower program in North America. Okay. It’s the disability sunflower program.

Kerianne Wilson: Yes, yes it is.

Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. And now it is in use at dozens of airports across North America and beyond. What extra comfort or confidence are travelers telling you about this simple symbol?

Kerianne Wilson: Thank you so much for the question, Donna. It was a very interesting process to go about taking on the program. So just for those who don’t know, it’s a UK program started with the founder, whose name is Paul, and it’s called the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower Program. Now, folks listening in Canada and in the US might not recognize the terminology as quickly as folks in the UK. The terminology hidden disabilities is quite common in the UK, whereas in North America it’s less common. It tends to be non-visible or non apparent, right? But the idea behind the program is really, really simple. And I think the beauty is in that simplicity. So by its very nature, someone with a non-visible disability or a non apparent disability, it’s not known it can’t be seen. And I think that causes a lot of stress, particularly for parents of children with non-visible disabilities. We might think most predominantly of children with autism. But it’s really not just autism. It’s for all sorts of non-visible disabilities. And so the idea behind the lanyard is offering choice. We always come back to that idea. Me and the team at Air Canada. The idea really is to offer customers options in how to reduce the anxiety and stress of traveling. And so the lanyard is simply that it’s a green lanyard with a yellow sunflower on it. And it’s recognized by Air Canada employees all over Canada and the US and some international.

Kerianne Wilson: And it’s also recognized by all of our cabin crew. And the idea really behind the lanyard is that the customer is saying I have a non-visible, visible disability. I might need a little bit of extra patience, a little bit of extra time, maybe just a little bit of a different understanding of what the customer is travel experience is. And we’ve heard really wonderful feedback. In the first weeks that we launched the program, I had a report from a customer who I know quite well, very frequent traveler with us who has autism, and he said that he got a note from the cabin crew saying, we see that you’re wearing the sunflower. We know what that means. Please let us know if we can give you any extra support. So that’s the kind of story that we’re hearing more and more. And it’s frankly beautiful. We’re really, really excited. We we were blown away by how positively it’s been received by some of the non-visible disability communities. Now, again, I really have to stress completely optional. The last thing we would want is for customers to feel obliged, or feel forced or feel kind of put on the spot. But for those who do want to make their non-visible disability visible, this is an option.

Donna J. Jodhan: So is it mainly for persons with invisible disabilities, would you say? Or how could it benefit me as someone who is vision impaired?

Kerianne Wilson: So that’s a really interesting question, Donna. So perhaps in your case, because if I may share with your listeners that you do use a cane it perhaps wouldn’t be so useful for you, but for folks who maybe have some vision loss or maybe an unusual kind of vision loss that’s less apparent. They don’t use a cane, but they might have difficulty focusing. Or perhaps they’re very, very nearsighted. It could be useful in that case, right? It could also just be maybe something a little bit more visible than a than a discreet, a discreet way of of showing that someone has vision loss.

Donna J. Jodhan: So would you then, you know, like, look at this as a backup plan for myself. I mean, I always, you know, notify er Canada of of my needs and requirements, but could this be a backup thing in case anything happens and someone sees me in a bit of trouble? I’m not saying it would happen or.

Kerianne Wilson: Yeah. No, I actually I think it could be. And if, if it was something that you wanted and it’s certainly a symbol that Air Canada employees really do recognize quite readily. It’s both discreet and colorful. And I know that we’ve talked about vision that you had in the past so that those colors are bright, but also not immediately saying, oh, look, here’s someone who needs help, right? It’s just kind of a symbol of, oh, perhaps this person might want to be asked to question Offer and support.

Donna J. Jodhan: Right. All right, so let’s move on. For passengers who rely on wheelchairs, knowing where their mobility aids aid is at every moment is priceless. Okay. Could you walk listeners through the new in-app tracking feature that lets us follow a chair from check in to arrival?

Kerianne Wilson: Absolutely. Would be my absolute pleasure. And this is an area where I really need to give credit to the full company, because this is something that was already in the works when I started in my role, and I was so excited to pick this up and really share with the community. So we absolutely understand as best we can. I’m not a wheelchair user myself, but the many customers I’ve spoken to who do use wheelchairs. They are never separated from their chair. It’s it’s as important as someone’s limb. It’s often described like that. And so one of the few moments where a customer no longer has possession control line of sight on their wheelchair is when their wheelchair has to go in the cargo hold. And so, recognizing that there’s a new system, it’s being rolled out across all of our Canada’s network. I think it’s fully rolled out in Canada and the US, and it’s getting into the international stations now where basically there are five scanning points for any items that are taken out of the customer’s control and then put below in the cargo hold. Now, of course, with baggage with suitcases, that first scan point starts at check in and then kind of continues throughout the airport journey with someone in their wheelchair for the most part.

Kerianne Wilson: That customer will obviously want to stay in their wheelchair until they get to the door of the aircraft, and so that they would skip a few of the scan points, because, of course, their wheelchair hasn’t gone underneath through the airport infrastructure. But basically once it is scanned at the door, it then is scanned onto the aircraft. And for someone who has the Air Canada app, which again, I must give a lot of credit to my colleagues. It’s a beautiful, functional, informative app. You go into the app, you log in, you find your booking, and you’re actually able to see, oh, there’s my wheelchair and it’s called mobility aid, very intentionally so that it’s encompassing and inclusive of many different types of mobility aids. But you would see there it is. It’s been scanned, it’s on the aircraft. And so the idea there is really to give that absolutely necessary reassurance to customers that we have your mobility aid in our control. It is safely on board and it will be there when you arrive.

Donna J. Jodhan: Is there or are there any other ways that this app can be used? You know, in addition to this type of service?

Kerianne Wilson: Oh my goodness. Absolutely. The app is a wealth of information. So for folks who perhaps have hearing loss and cannot hear announcements to do with delays, cancellations the app has a lot of those notifications right there. And so they’ll pop up and say your flight is delayed, perhaps. Hopefully it doesn’t happen too often. In the event of a gate change, also, you would get a notification, which is something that a lot of folks would definitely want to have. The app also helps because it’s written down. And so for anybody who has perhaps sensory processing needs to have noise canceling headphones on for the airport, the app is able to share that information. There’s also information in the app on what food options are available on board. There’s a seat map. There’s all sorts of information about the actual aircraft itself. For aviation geeks who might be interested in the registration number, the type of aircraft. And also for folks who perhaps are looking for a slightly fancier trip and are hoping to upgrade, you have information available on where you are on the standby list, and you actually can see in real time when the standby list clears. So really a fully encompassing app for the for the travel journey and for the full travel experience.

Donna J. Jodhan: I’ll get this up benefit me as someone who is visually impaired.

Kerianne Wilson: So a lot of the information that you might want to know about your flight is in the app. So rather than having to rely on a screen, perhaps that would say if there’s a delay, again, something like that. If you you can have your boarding pass in the app. So, of course, having a paper boarding pass wouldn’t be helpful for you, Donna, but the app can have your boarding pass there so you’re able to use it independently. Also, let’s say you’re looking for you’ve checked a bag, and you need to pick it up upon arrival. The app will tell you which baggage carousel to go to, and so you’d be able to know that independently and then not be reliant on someone to to read a screen for you upon arrival in the baggage hall. A lot, a lot of useful information, and we’re really looking to add more information. We’d love to add station specific information, for example. So how do you request curbside assistance? Say you’re leaving out of Pearson or we’re looking at what kind of information would be really helpful for somebody once they’re on board. So let’s say for in the in-flight entertainment system would be able to put details into the app saying, oh, you’re flying one of our newer aircraft. Donna, we know that you have vision loss. This system on this aircraft is accessible. And what a wonderful way to enjoy the trip fully.

Donna J. Jodhan: Would I be able to test this app without booking a trip?

Kerianne Wilson: So we. There are certainly things that you can do. You can absolutely test the app without a booking. You’d be able to log in with your airline profile. You can look up a flight status. So I actually do this when my parents are flying. I open the app. I know the flight that they’re flying on. I want to see how their flight went. I pop in their flight number and there we are. I can look at all the information related to their flight. So of course there are some features that you would need to have a flight for. But Donna, you’ll be traveling soon to our next Accessibility Advisory Committee meeting. So we’ll make sure that you use the app and test it out at that point for all those other features.

Donna J. Jodhan: You’re spying on your parents, aren’t you?

Kerianne Wilson: Just a little bit. Just a little bit. I just want to make sure that they’re having a good trip, and I’ll often text them and ask how their flight went. Once I know that they’ve landed.

Donna J. Jodhan: Do you.

Kerianne Wilson: Know.

Donna J. Jodhan: If other airlines have a similar type of app, or is it Air Canada to start with, or who else is doing this? Is this.

Kerianne Wilson: A lot? A lot of airlines have apps. Really excellent apps. I would say United’s app has a lot of information in it. I’ve used British Airways app. I’ve used American Airlines app. So it is airline specific. And you’ll see the really different approaches to that. So the fact that Air Canada has the full standby list and upgrade list in the app, that’s very unusual. I’ve not seen many other carriers who do it that way. Now, that said, there there’s a good way and a bad way. And there’s just also different ways of doing things. And so the last time I flew on United, I was on standby for my flight, and the standby list was actually on a screen at the gate. So certainly different ways of sharing information. But again, the thing that I love about our app is that it’s it’s usable by so many different people with different disabilities. It’s usable when you’re not at the gate. It’s usable. Again, folks with sensory processing, folks who have vision loss it really is quite the useful, handy tool. And I do think it is becoming more and more common for a lot of this information to be really at your fingertips in the form of an airline app.

Donna J. Jodhan: You know, as you talk about some passengers really being very anxious. And where is my wheelchair? Where is my wheelchair? I have a funny story to share with you and our listeners in that the other day when I was flying to the UK on Air Canada, the nice hostess thought it would be helpful to take my cane and store it somewhere. And I got really anxious. I said, no, no, you can’t take my cane away. I need to know where it is at all times. And she was very, very apologetic. And I said, you know, like that cane or my cane is like my security blanket, so I need to know where it is. She was very, very quick to agree and apologized up and down. And I said, no need to apologize, you know, so I can really understand like someone wanting to know where is my wheelchair.

Kerianne Wilson: And I would say honestly Donna this is an area where we’d love to see further further development really increase that, that reassurance that we could give to customers. And so we’re looking at other options that we’re able to kind of get more information for the customer and really reassure them for, for where and in what state mobility aids are in. It’s really something that I know airlines take very seriously and still remains challenging in some cases, given the size of cargo doors, sometimes the size of mobility aids that are difficult to reduce in height. It’s really something that remains very challenging for the aviation industry, but I’m really hopeful that this is going to change in the next few years.

Donna J. Jodhan: Right. So last November, Air Canada accelerated its 2023 2026 accelerated Accessibility plan after some service shortfalls made headlines. Unfortunately, which quick wins have been have already been delivered and which big milestones are up next?

Kerianne Wilson: So, you know, it’s something that’s really important to be honest about because it is true that we had a number of service failures that were really unfortunate and and very stressful for the customers involved. And they did make the news in Canada. And it was shortly after I had started in my portfolio. So it was really quite eye opening and also a real opportunity to gain visibility, make sure that we were working on the right things. And so the timing was quite interesting because of course, we had just published our first accessibility plan and came out in June. I started my role in September, and then it was really shortly after that. We had a couple of failures that made it into the news. And so some of the items that we accelerated were were already in our accessibility plan. In fact, almost everything was but we took a look, we took a hard look at what timelines we had set up, and we said, okay, no, let’s let’s move a little bit faster. So one of the ones that we’re really, really proud of. So listeners might not be terribly familiar with how people who are non ambulatory board and aircraft. But currently the way that aircraft are designed and how wheelchairs are designed and other mobility aids, basically most customers need to be manually transferred onto the aircraft or assisted with with a number of devices. But there are some really specialized devices that are passenger lifts, passenger hoists that are really, really helpful for some people with with varying disabilities and varying needs.

Kerianne Wilson: Perhaps a pain that makes a manual transfer difficult, perhaps needing a little more core support. And so there’s a vendor that sells these Eagle lifts. They’re based in Australia, and they’re really remarkable pieces of equipment for folks who like them. And again, if we come back to the idea of providing choice, providing options for customers, that’s really one of the founding principles of what we’re doing, me and my team at Air Canada. But one of the decisions that we made was we were going to commit to have more of these passenger lifts, passenger hoists available. And so in the, in the in the year following that, we took possession of 27 lifts throughout Canada. And we’re currently looking at how we get more lifts available so that we can have a really consistent product in Canada, which is where we control our infrastructure. We have our own staff providing transfer assistance. Now, where this gets really interesting is that it’s not a standard outside of Canada or Australia or New Zealand. Those are really the only countries where we see consistent use of these passenger lifts. But it might be something that is growing in the rest of, in the rest of the world. And we’re seeing more manufacturers enter the market, particularly as new aircraft and aircraft layouts come out. So we’re really, really excited to be at the forefront of this. And we’ve created actually a special Service. Request a specific special service request for customers who want to use the Eagle Lift.

Kerianne Wilson: So if any of your listeners have ever questioned what an Eagle lift is ever questioned, what does it look like? What is the experience? We actually added videos onto our website. So if you go to Air Canada Accessibility and then you pick the tile. There’s a couple of different topics available. Airport assistance. You scroll down to the bottom and we’ve got some videos showing what it’s like to be transferred with with the lift. And then if that is something that’s interesting to you you just contact Accessibility Services and they add that to your booking. So we’re really, really excited about that big, big change. Another change that we made that we’re in the process of completing the training is we added some additional in-person, hands on really focused on the soft skills related to accessibility services. And this is something that we see throughout the company. And I think it’s indicative just of where we are as a country. We’re not as well integrated as we would like. People with disabilities. People without disabilities temporarily is something we say. Everyone is just temporarily not disabled. You know, I often hear as well that the disability minority group is one of the few minority groups that you can join at any time. Something that really, really strikes true for me because you know, nothing is certain in life. You just have no idea what’s coming around the corner. I met someone recently who had gone to work as a chef that day.

Kerianne Wilson: He had been a chef for a long time. And during his shift, he lost his vision. From one, one minute to the next. So I’m digressing here a little bit, but the point is, is that really communicating and teaching our employees, how to have conversations, how to be comfortable, how to welcome our customers with disabilities just the same as any other customer, and really breaking down those perhaps fears and anxieties of perhaps using the wrong language or saying the wrong thing, or not having all the answers. So that was a huge, huge achievement. We’re so pleased with how that training’s been going. We’ve gotten really good feedback. We’ve worked extensively with our Accessibility Advisory Committee on this training, as well as other folks from the disability community. And then, of course, you you already asked me about the hidden Disability Sunflower program, which was one of the other things that we accelerated very, very happy with how that’s been going. And I will add just one more point on that, which is that following our adoption of the program, we were contacted by many, many airports. So a big difference, I think, seeing that Air Canada went forward with it. Canadian airports, we’ve been seeing this spread go from the west of the country to the east, and we’re pretty excited about a few countries. A few airports, I beg your pardon, that have just announced that they’re joining us momentarily.

Donna J. Jodhan: You know, it was an eye opener for me when I joined your committee to learn so much about how people or, you know, passengers in wheelchairs, the challenges they face and what they need to do in order to be comfortable and how, you know, the cabin crews interact with them and the various agents. It was an eye opener for me because as someone with a vision impairment, we live in a sort of different world in that, you know, it’s our cane and us and, you know, I, I respectfully say that for someone in a wheelchair, I believe that the challenges are a lot more, you know, inherent. And what are your thoughts on that?

Kerianne Wilson: It’s a really interesting question, Donna, because I think none of us can truly know what it’s like, right, to live in someone else’s shoes. But I think the closest we can get is listening to the people with lived experience. And so when I have been privileged enough to hear from our friends, our committee members, our colleagues who use wheelchairs it really is eye opening, just how inaccessible the world remains in many ways. And so, you know, I didn’t realize that until curb cuts in the sidewalk became common. People didn’t use wheeled suitcases because they couldn’t get their wheeled suitcases up onto the sidewalk. Right. But but picture that from someone in a wheelchair. You literally cannot get up on the sidewalk because nobody thought of you when the design was done, when the sidewalk was built. I think also of just the the heights of things. Right. We truly wouldn’t think about it. I’m quite tall. I’m five foot ten. I can reach really, really high up, I know. Donna, you and I have have remarked on our height difference when we’ve been in person. You’re perhaps a little smaller than me. But I think about that from the perspective of of someone using a wheelchair. But then again, you know it just comes down to universal design. And I think that really is the key here. Right? Because the world is so inaccessible, there’s a barrier, perhaps more so for people with mobility aids or battery powered mobility aids because of getting them in and out of vehicles and cars and, and weight restrictions, etc..

Kerianne Wilson: But if we build with universal access in mind the barriers fall away. Right? And I think that is really what we’re, we’re going for. So we have a few guiding principles that mean the team are working on. And one of them really is designing with accessibility in mind right from the very start. It makes it so much simpler and easier, and we can’t even imagine the benefits to folks without disabilities with what we will create. I often think of the information desk at the Vancouver Airport Authority. I must give credit to that team. It just looks like a beautiful information desk. Really interesting, really artistic. And what you realize once you look at it is it’s arranged in a way that there are varying height options for customers to go to the information desk. It literally just looks like a beautiful wave, but it is a fully accessible information desk, no matter how tall or small somebody is, whether they’re seated or standing. Understanding, and that’s really what I would love to see, a space that just takes into account people’s access needs right from the start. And so we no longer would think, oh, someone who uses a wheelchair would have a harder time getting around. No, they have just as easy as time as someone walking, someone walking with a cane, somebody you know, bringing a service dog like it. Access for everybody.

Donna J. Jodhan: As someone who travels regularly to the UK. I’m wondering, I’m putting you on the spot here. But if you compared the Canadian airports or the the Air or Air Canada’s services to what goes on in the UK, how do you stack up against that?

Kerianne Wilson: You are putting me on the spot. That’s all right. That’s all right. No, I will take the question. Absolutely. So I think there’s some really big structural differences that are very, very interesting. And I think there’s both good and bad to every system. So in Canada we are we as an airline are responsible for providing assistance in the airport, but we don’t control the infrastructure, right? We don’t control the built environment. And so that’s a really interesting split. You have one party responsible for providing the assistance, one party responsible for providing the built environment, which dictates how the service is provided. So we might have a little bit more control in some cases less control in other cases. We have great working relationships with our airport authorities in Canada. But but it is split that way. And so of course, you’re not going to end up with perfectly aligned priorities at all times. But then again, if you look at the UK model it’s the airport authority that obviously owns the building and manages the infrastructure, and then they contract out to a party that provides assistance. And so while you have both items nominally under the control of the airport authority you end up with a more arm’s length relationship with the folks who are providing the assistance. And what this means is that you kind of lose that human touch with the customers, right? And so we do see this sometimes that customers will transit through a European airport. It doesn’t have to be one or the other one in particular. And so in some cases, you know, folks are very friendly, very wonderful, but in other cases they’re not. Perhaps the agents having a bad day, or perhaps it’s just a really difficult operational day. And in the eyes of the customer, all of this is Air Canada, which is really, really far from reality.

Kerianne Wilson: And so that, for me, would be one of the disadvantages. We really lose that opportunity to give excellent service to our customers. Now, if I back up even further, I would say that the cities where we really see excellent service, a greater understanding of disability and what accessibility means, as well as really impressive accessibility developments. There are the cities that have had the Paralympics recently, and so I really have to use the example of London for this. You know, the fact that all black cabs in London are wheelchair accessible. That’s got to be linked to the fact that the Paralympics occurred there so recently. And I would say the same for Vancouver. You know, these are cities that really invested in infrastructure, invested in training, invested in technology. Really impressive. You know, the Skytrain in Vancouver, very accessible. When I contrast that to other cities in Canada that have older transit systems, we have so far to go with what is accessible. You know, setting aside the question of of what’s wheelchair accessible or not, I think of the announcements that are made. I live in Montreal, as Donny, you know. The announcements made over the public announcement system in Montreal. I speak fluent French and fluent English. I cannot understand the announcements, and there’s no way to have them visually. There’s no way to have them kind of written out or directed to Bluetooth. I mean, if you’re really thinking about universal access and accessible design, I think we’re going to see a lot of innovation as we see where the next Paralympics are, which are Milan or Cortina. So we will see where that goes. But I think London got a really, really big boost, if you will, from the Paralympics.

Donna J. Jodhan: You know, I wonder when the Toronto area, when will the City of Toronto be hosting any sort of Paralympics? You know, that would help them to be more aware. I mean, I’ve seen a lot of improvement at the Toronto airport. I’ve seen a lot of improvement with Air Canada agents. I’m very pleased to see a lot of that, but there’s still a lot of work to be done. As you say, I wonder. Yeah, no, it’s a good question.

Kerianne Wilson: It’s a good question. I would say Toronto is our our our biggest hub and it’s also the biggest city in Canada. And so I think you see really extraordinary development. And you also see just some of the work that remains to be done because of the sheer size of both the airport and the city. But I really have to give a lot of credit to the GTA for. So that’s the Greater Toronto Airports Authority. They have a really, really interesting plan going forward with some of the renovations. They have some really cool innovations, and they’ve been a very, very good partner to us as we’re getting into our third year of of working more closely together on accessibility with the creation of my position. And also my counterpart, Cathy Saliba, who I know you know well. Donna? Yes. So. So this is a beautiful thing about Canada being both an enormous country and a very small country. When you think about it. And the accessibility and the disability space in Canada also is still quite small. And so I think we’re at a point where there’s going to be a shift. I can feel that we’re on the cusp of a shift now. The built environment is always going to be the slowest to move, right? Because it’s it’s faster to fix technology than it is to perhaps install more elevators or change the layout.

Kerianne Wilson: Like these are major, major changes that that can take years, if not decades, right? But as we continue to work to find technology solutions share awareness, I truly hope that we’re on the cusp of seeing something really change from a cultural perspective. I know you you had the privilege that I had of having Stephanie considered the chief accessibility Officer of Canada at our Accessibility Advisory Committee meeting in April of this year. But I think with the creation of her role, I think she’s really going to help be a voice for permanent and and profound change within the Canadian cultural landscape, which is what we need as a country. And I think that will really help the work along to make travel more accessible, but also everything else, right? Daily transit, restaurant access, employment getting around the city. I mean, really these are these are major, major things that I think this is a focus that we need to have in in parallel for sure, to the work to of making air travel more accessible.

Donna J. Jodhan: So just drifting a wee bit out of our questions here. We are still waiting for the appointment of a minister for disability issues, Do you think this is going to affect our work in any way, shape or form?

Kerianne Wilson: So that is an interesting question, Donna. And I would say that with the very robust legislative and regulatory framework that we have in Canada. Yeah, I don’t I don’t worry about that. Really with the backbone and this is coming from someone I call myself a reformed lawyer, as you know. So I’ve been a lawyer for a long time with the Quebec, which is so the Bar Association of Quebec. And I think that Canada has one of the most interesting and encouraging almost is not quite the right word, but really really interesting and a system with a lot of potential. And it also has a lot of weight behind it. So the fact that the Accessible Canada Act is in place. The fact that there’s both the accessible transportation persons, sorry, accessible transportation for persons with disabilities regulations. So that’s specific for transportation. The acronym is at PDR. But then on top of it there’s the Accessible Transportation Planning and Reporting regulations, ATP, RR. And it’s based on those regulations that many, many, many major companies, every company that is federally regulated in Canada of a certain size, and then also transportation service providers. So that’s major airports. It’s airlines crossing provincial borders for trains and ferries for buses. I mean, it’s really, really far reaching. You’ve got telecom, you’ve got banking, you’ve got all government agencies. We all are required and and privileged genuinely to prepare a public accessibility plan and none of that is going away. So the question of whether there’s going to be a minister for disability or not, that for me, that is actually a very separate question and one that I wouldn’t want to get into because it’s really not my area. What my area is, is how do we make air travel more accessible and how do we make employment more accessible? And so the the framework that I am operating in that we are operating in very robust, not at risk and frankly, very effective so far from what I can see.

Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. So you created an accessibility advisory committee that brings real travelers with disabilities to the table. What’s one improvement that came directly from the committee’s feedback?

Kerianne Wilson: So you’re putting me on the spot here because I have some that I want to talk about, but I cannot yet. So what I would say is I’ll share one where you had very key input, and I’ll share one that you consulted on. But the idea came from outside of the community, and I think that’s actually really important to share because as it currently is, our community is still quite small, still quite new. We did have a fifth member who has since left us for very illustrious grounds.

Screen Reader: And, down arrow, really.

Kerianne Wilson: Important to us that we keep consulting broadly. Right, because we have our trusted committee members, which are very, very valuable members giving good feedback coming in regularly to meet folks internal and external. But of course, they don’t represent everyone’s lived experience. That’s just not possible. And so a big part of our engagement strategy, our consultation strategy, is making sure that we have the right people at the table to give us that feedback, to guide us, to get us back on the rails, if ever were off to give us ideas. And so with that in mind, here are the two things I want to talk about. I mentioned already that the new training programs that we had put in place and are currently completing the rollout of that really focuses on the softer skills, the comfort respectful communication. So those are programs that we consulted extensively with the Accessibility Advisory Committee on to make sure that it was the right approach, that the themes made sense, that we were going to get the results that we wanted. And so that has been really, really exciting. And that’s an area where we continue to partner very closely with the committee as we look at rolling out new and other programs. Very, very pleased about that. One of the initiatives that has launched with the help of the advisory committee is a suggestion that, like I said, came from outside of the community. But we have a very, very cool session that we do every January with the senior leaders at Canada. And a year and a half ago, we had someone come in. Her name was Michelle Mahoney. And she is the accessibility officer at University of King’s College in Halifax.

Kerianne Wilson: She also has been associated with Easter Seals for a very, very long time. And so she came in to speak to us about her experiences in both capacities. She talked about how much she loves traveling, and then she just happened to mention, you know, wouldn’t it be great if there were straws on board so that I could drink my drink? Because of the way that Michelle’s disability has manifested, she has trouble holding a glass without a straw. All right. And so out of that was born a beautiful idea. We thought, well, let’s do it. Let’s do it. And so one of our committee members, our beloved Paul Rogers, was involved in the testing of the straws. And we also actually took the opportunity to test really broadly within our our internal accessibility community as well at Air Canada. And a lot of our employees and our fellow colleagues have come forward since our group was created people who have known for years, frankly, and they said, carry on. Like, you probably don’t know this, but, you know, my daughter has a disability or my husband has a disability. I found out last week that one of my colleagues who I’ve known for almost ten years her husband, has profound hearing loss. He uses cochlear implants. I had no idea. You know what? That’s the kind of discussion that is happening. It’s allowing us to really build our internal community and get the word out that accessibility is really for everybody. So in a roundabout way the committee has really helped us with these two initiatives. As well as other folks within the disability community that we consult with.

Donna J. Jodhan: We’re planning to increase the number of committee members. Or are you allowed to tell me?

Kerianne Wilson: Well, I’m telling the whole world now. So we we intentionally started small. And Donna, when you and I first spoke in December of 2023, I explained this that we were brand new. One of the major commitments that I had made as part of the accessibility plan was that we would set up an advisory committee, as well as continuing to partner with other organizations and consulting groups, and really make sure that that lived experience is front and center. And as we’ve continued to work together we’re seeing more and more just how valuable the committee is and also where the gaps are perhaps in, in that lived experience. And so we know that there are communities that need representation at the table and that that really is what we’re looking for. And we’re also, frankly, looking to make sure that our committee represents Canada as a whole, which is very diverse. Right. So making sure that we have a good range of of other experiences and minority groups and, and making sure that we’re really representing Canadians with disabilities accurately, fairly, and bringing that lived experience to the table, because certainly someone who’s grown up, perhaps affluent in an urban centre as a person with a disability is going to have a very different experience from growing up, perhaps less affluent in, in the country or perhaps in a different province. These are experiences that really, really matter to us. And so, yes, we’re looking, we’re looking, we’re considering. That’s all I can say right now to you and to the whole listening community. But it is something that we are committed to making sure that we are involving people who have the lived experience to make sure that we are always improving and building accessibility and right from the start.

Donna J. Jodhan: On a personal level, I am really impressed with this committee in that you air Canada is listening on. Air Canada is really consulting with us. Like, you know, like it’s a hand in hand team. It’s not just Air Canada preaching to the choir, you know, like this is what impresses me with with this committee. And I’m just pleased to be to be part of it. Thank you very much.

Kerianne Wilson: Very kind of you to say, Donna. I mean, it’s I think what’s been really, really exciting for us particularly is having having you folks available and interested in in projects as they come up and and really giving that feedback, but then also being able to then take take those experiences and share them broadly. You know, when you tell me a story of something that happened to you, I then pick that story up and I say, I know someone who. This was her experience and this is what she would have wanted. And it makes it so much more impactful than if I, as carry on, am saying, well, you know, the vision loss or blind community says this thing. No, no, no, it’s I know Donna who said this thing and it really helps that bring it home. I mean, you know, in the in the ideal world, we would have way more employees with a whole range of disabilities who wanted to talk about it. Right. And I think that’s a real key point to bring up. We know and you know, that Stats Canada came out with stats last year saying that 27% of Canadians self-identify as having a disability. So that’s a remarkable stat, right? So that’s also that’s people who are willing to self-identify. Some people are not for many, many good reasons, but at a minimum 27%. And then you look around and you like think through your circle, your family, your colleagues, It means that there are loads of folks who are not comfortable for whatever reason, right? They’ve been burned in the past and they think it’s their own business. Perhaps they’re uncomfortable. In some cases, it might be a new disability that people are not perhaps at peace with or really comfortable with. Or as I mentioned earlier, or perhaps they’re they’re in the process of developing a disability and it’s just not quite there yet. But this is something that, you know, until there comes a time when everyone around you is comfortable talking about disability. I am often the advocate, and I bring I bring those stories to life by sharing it with people.

Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah, I think a lot of people are still uncomfortable talking about it. You know, like my brother often says to me, you know, like he’s sitting beside me and he sees people that are looking at us, you know, in a conversation. And there’s they’re staring at me and he’s saying, hey. Come over and say hello.

Kerianne Wilson: You know what? I was actually talking to my team a couple days ago saying that you know whenever I see someone driving a really cool power chair or a very nifty kind of different mobility aid, I just can’t take my eyes off it because it’s, it’s magical. And I think I’m going to have to start going over and saying hi, because otherwise people will think I’m staring at them when really I’m just like, I’m mesmerized. You know, I saw someone recently with one of those really cool attachments that basically turns what looks like a manual wheelchair into what looks like a tricycle, like a power tricycle. They’re so cool. But yeah, I think I’m going to have to start going over and saying, hi, I’m Karen, I love your wheelchair. Can you tell me about it?

Donna J. Jodhan: Oh my goodness.

Kerianne Wilson: I know, I know.

Donna J. Jodhan: But you know, I saw this quote recently from a mom who said to her kid, stop staring at that person because they look different. And that really caught me. And I think this is why a lot of people stare, because someone is looking different in some way, shape or form. Right.

Kerianne Wilson: Well so I have to tell a very very.

Kerianne Wilson: Cute story and it’s going to feature one of my team members Rob who you know. Well yes. And it’s also going to feature Claire actually who you also know. Well. So now the full team has been named on the podcast. But the three of us were present at a beautiful event a couple weeks back called No Limits, and it’s a dance competition for breakdancing competition in Montreal. Where there were breakers from all over the world who came in and they did workshops on dancing with the disability given by a number of folks that the whole event was hosted by abilities, which was led by Luca. Petrelli. And then the end battle. The dancers dance with a variety of mobility aids. They basically did like a spinning wheel that landed on the mobility aid. And then the dancers danced. So all this to say, really, really inclusive, amazing dance opportunity. And Rob came in with his wife and their three kids. And the kids are very young. His daughter is five and his twin sons are three. And the daughter in particular, like very, very bright, very engaged, very curious. And she’s never been in a room before with so many people with disabilities. Visible disabilities. Okay. And so she was asking her mom and pointing like, what’s that? What’s that? Why is that person in a wheelchair? And Rob’s wife initially was was feeling quite badly about it. But she really got into it, and so did Rob’s daughter, where basically it’s like, no, there’s nothing shameful about asking these questions. You know, it might feel embarrassing as an adult, but this actually teaches children to be curious and to be open and be accepting like it’s okay. Like, why don’t you go over and ask like, hi, can I look at your chair? You know what is your crutch for? Like, there’s an innocence to the questions. Yes. I think is really beautiful. And when you stifle that innocence, when you shut down that curiosity, you turn disability from something normal and perhaps a little bit unusual to something shameful and something hidden and something that you can’t talk about. And I would love to see that change.

Donna J. Jodhan: I know we’re starting to run out of time, but I would like to ask you this question. Please go ahead. As a vision impaired passenger, I can now enjoy being able to read those safety cards in Braille. Enjoy on board entertainment. But I wanted to know more about the iPad translation.

Kerianne Wilson: So so I’ve had translation actually we we no longer have the iPads on board, but it is something that I would love to explore as we go forward in the app. So the ability to have any communications go through the app. I’d also love to see a feature. This is something that the hearing loss community has been asking for, understandably, and I cannot wait for the day that this is available, but to have announcements that are transcribed on the screen or on the app so that someone can see them and this I think would also be helpful, for example, if there’s an announcement that that’s garbled you know, sometimes it comes through and folks with hearing can still not hear it. Right. So I would love for announcements like that to be transcribed and then also perhaps be able to be repeated for someone like yourself who can’t see the announcement, some, some person like myself perhaps, who had headphones on, noise cancelling headphones. And so I didn’t hear the announcement. There’s a lot I think is going to happen with in-flight entertainment for for flights that do have the seatback, but also, I think a lot that’s going to happen with smartphones as more and more aircraft have connectivity, so you don’t even need to sign up for Wi-Fi, right? You can actually sign in just to get updates from the Ife system on some airlines. And I think the opportunity to really elevate communication onboard that, that is going to be the next thing. I’m very, very lucky to have the opportunity to speak with manufacturers. Boeing and Airbus have both been making really, really big strides towards more inclusive design. And for a long time, I think the focus in aviation, but also perhaps more widely, is on access needs for people in wheelchairs or people who use mobility aids. And I think the next focus is really going to be on communication. For a long time, there’s been major, major barriers for folks with vision loss and hearing loss. And I think that’s really the next wave on board.

Donna J. Jodhan: But would this leave the technically shy behind though in any way?

Kerianne Wilson: So it is a risk. And I think you’re always going to have to again, we come back to that idea of options, right. So I think where where this is really going to help is the folks who have devices, who are tech savvy. This gives them that independent access. And then you will always likely need to supplement with crew who are ready to explain. Perhaps someone doesn’t want to use a smartphone to access a menu. They do want someone to walk them through the menu like with their voice. And these are the things that we really have to build in, right? Not everyone’s going to have a device. Not everyone is going to be comfortable navigating it. But if we’re able to provide choice and options. We make the experience better for everybody.

Donna J. Jodhan: So with precious few minutes left, carry on. If you could dream, dream for me. Tell me, what do you dream of for a perfect world of accessibility.

Kerianne Wilson: Oh my goodness, perfect world of accessibility. Like anything that I want.

Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah. What do you want?

Kerianne Wilson: I what I want genuinely is. And it’s going to sound, it’s going to sound interesting because it’s not my area directly, but I work so closely with our team at Air Canada. I would love to narrow, if not eliminate, the employment gap. I think there is such wasted talent that we have. We are not seeing, you know, I know so many people with disabilities who are underemployed or are have been unemployed at times in the past. And I think my experience of working with colleagues with disabilities, it’s, it’s eye opening for so many reasons. Right? Like the, the, the experience of walking through a hallway with someone with vision loss, you just experience it differently. And one thing that I’ve really, really seen is that people with disabilities are so creative. You know, I have to talk about someone that I’ve met in Vancouver who has a really, really interesting disability who was born that way. And I’ve just seen the things that he can do. And I, I’m mesmerized. And he just looked at me. He’s like, but this is this is this is my life. Like, of course I’m able to do this. Like, what would I do otherwise? I’m like, yeah, that’s a really, really good point. But it just really opens your mind to different ways of doing things better ways of doing things innovative. Different. Creative. Productive. Yeah, that would be my number one. Number one vision of an accessible world. It’s where people with disabilities are able to be employed just like anybody else, and it would make the world a really different place.

Donna J. Jodhan: Ariane, I’d like to thank you for having joined our interview today. It has been a privilege and a pleasure to have you, and I think you’ve really shared a lot of great news with us, a lot of insights with us. I want to thank you. And you know, take care.

Kerianne Wilson: Thank you. Thank you so much, Donna. Really, really, really pleased to have been here. And I can’t wait to have our accessibility advisory committee.

Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah, we’ll be there tomorrow.

Kerianne Wilson: Thank you very much, Donna.

Donna J. Jodhan: Thanks, Kerianne. Take care. Bye bye.

Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna. Hand at gmail.com. Until next time.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.