Remarkable World Commentary Episode #35: Interview with Veronica Puente, Braille Teacher (K-12), Governor Morehead School for the Blind, Raleigh, North Carolina

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In this engaging episode of Remarkable World Commentary, host Donna J. Jodhan sits down with North-Carolina Braille teacher Veronica Puente, who opens by reaffirming her mantra that “Braille is literacy, and literacy is a human right.” She explains how true tactile literacy underpins everything from writing emails to reading elevator signs and is therefore non-negotiable for independence. Veronica recounts her own journey — from first-generation college student and aspiring diplomat to Master’s-trained Teacher of the Visually Impaired — describing the volunteer experience with a neglected elementary student that redirected her path into the classroom. Today at Governor Morehead School she tailors instruction with Perkins Braillers, Braille-Legos and double-spaced flash-cards, making literacy accessible even for learners with additional intellectual or tactile challenges.

The conversation ranges well beyond the basics of embossers and displays. Veronica details her leadership of the Eastern North Carolina Regional Braille Challenge, emphasizing how competition builds skills and community ties for blind youth. She reflects on a self-funded semester in Italy with her guide dog Fred—an eye-opening lesson in global accessibility gaps that toughened her resolve and later shaped her counseling of students who dream of study abroad. Throughout the interview she offers practical tips for parents to weave Braille into everyday life, urges colleagues to learn “at least the alphabet,” and calls on education ministers worldwide to pair high expectations with genuine respect for the spectrum of blindness experience. The result is a rich, hope-infused dialogue that leaves listeners with both strategic insights and renewed belief in the transformative power of tactile literacy.

TRANSCRIPT:

Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA, invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.

Donna J. Jodhan: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I’m Donna Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism. I’m a law graduate, accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments. In November 2010, I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its website accessible to every Canadian, not just sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June 3rd, 2022, I was humbled by Her Late Majesty’s Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I’m not in a courtroom or in a committee room or a portrait studio, you’ll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles. One goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of the show as one shared workbench where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today’s conversation, let me shine a quick spotlight on today’s guest or changemaker, whose work is as every bit as remarkable as the world we’re trying to build. Veronica Puente I would like to welcome you to my podcast. How are you doing today?

Veronica Puente: I’m great. How are you?

Donna J. Jodhan: Not too bad. Thank you. Veronica. You have made a very Insightful statement that I’d like to start with. You often say that Braille is literacy. And literacy is a human right. Could you walk our listeners through what that statement means in real world terms, or a blind student sitting in your classroom?

Veronica Puente: Sure. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this opportunity. I think what I think about braille and literacy going hand in hand. I think about the student who is not encouraged to learn how to read and write. As we know, they both go hand in hand. And I think about the student who graduates without being able to articulate their thoughts in multiple ways. Not just, you know, recording or, you know, taking notes, but being able to write simple journal, you know, using the Braille writers like stylus. I also think about a student who graduates and who perhaps has to go to a place that never been before, and like, they look for the elevator or, you know, the restroom, and they have to read the Braille and figure out, okay, you know, it’s this elevator. Is this the women’s bathroom? Is this a men’s bathroom? Like, if they don’t have that braille ability to read that, then it makes it very difficult for them to get around, and therefore it doesn’t allow for independency and your identity of being treated as a human right. So I think, you know, that goes within that. And, you know, think about the students who graduate and don’t get a job because they don’t know how to articulate themselves in writing. They don’t know how to write a simple email. They don’t know how to write a simple, simple proposal. Like if they have to write something. It really goes hand in hand, you know, being able to access information at home as well. Like if they have to label something around the house, such as the washer or dryer, you know, it’s it’s the essential part because braille literacy is the bridge to everything else. And if you don’t have that, then you don’t have the equal life and equal access to everyone else does.

Donna J. Jodhan: Do you think Braille will survive?

Veronica Puente: I think I get very irritated with people, you know, says something like to that effect, kind of like, well, why do we bother teaching braille when you have technology? But it’s like you would never say that to a sighted person. Like what will you read? Print. If you have the computer or you have everything else. Like. Right? Like you will never say that to a to a person who cited a case, who cited like, don’t bother to learn how to read print because you know, you’ll be able to type and you’ll be able to read, like, how can you say that? And you know, for us who are blind, bro is the equivalent of print. So it has to be part of what we teach every day, whether, you know, the kid is going to university or just going to get a job after graduation. And even people who lose their sight later in life, they should still have access to everything else that people have, whether it’s reading you know, regular menu in a restaurant or anything like that, for that matter. So I think it will be an issue.

Donna J. Jodhan: So you were the first person in your family to attend college starting at Wake Tech and eventually earning your math teaching students with visual impairments. What personal turning points convinced you to trade a future in international diplomacy for life in the classroom?

Veronica Puente: So I think for me, you know, being the first person in my family who was university into college was a huge achievement. But it was definitely with the challenges because, you know, I didn’t have anyone who can help me, coach me through the process of like, the financial aid or what does it look like when you had to buy textbooks or like, you know, all those details on college life that I didn’t have a family member to walk me through? I was blessed that I have mentors in the community who helped me through that process and helped me get to where I am today. I love learning about other people and other cultures, which is why my undergrad was in international relations. But I think for me, what really made me change my path until I went into education was a particular student of mine, like I was between undergrad and going into my master’s program, I still didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I thought I wanted to go study law because, you know, we all struggle with legal issues when you’re blind and visually impaired. I mean, heck, when you have any type of disability, there’s always some type of discrimination, whether we like it or not. So I was like, well, I’m going to go to a law degree and that’s going to open more doors. But I got to volunteer here and there with different organizations. And then I got to work at the school for the blind. I was helping out. I wasn’t really working, but I was helping out, and I was having a conversation with this younger student in elementary, and he says something like, well, we don’t really know how to read Braille.

Veronica Puente: And so and so doesn’t really teach us because she doesn’t think it’s important. And that just kind of upset me so much, because this was a kid who was bright and who wanted to learn. And I knew, like, when I read aloud to him, he really loved the stories and he wanted to read, and I could tell he wanted to learn, but it was so difficult for him to access everything because he wasn’t learning like he should have been. And I decided that I wanted to change the narrative because I knew that I could be a role model for these kids because they didn’t see blind people who were capable, who have been, you know, to other countries outside of the United States. They never they weren’t exposed to that. And I was like, okay it would be really cool to, of course, go outside and make a big difference in the world. But I could do that in my own community. I can do that in my own backyard. I can do that with my kids and make a difference here. It doesn’t have to be in the international level. You know, perhaps someday it would be. But I know right now this is where I am supposed to be helping the kids in the classroom, not just learn the Braille, but having those conversations that sometimes they don’t have anybody else to talk to.

Donna J. Jodhan: I’ve kept in touch with this particular student.

Veronica Puente: Sorry.

Donna J. Jodhan: What was that? Have you kept in touch with this particular student?

Veronica Puente: Yes, yes. We do. And he’s he’s really what really got my passion goal for education. So right now he’s going through some health issues and stuff like that. But it has been great to have conversations with him about education and see how he still wants to learn and, you know, getting to work with other students. Now, the you know, I see that impact every day in the classroom. You know, just being able to see, you know, I just have a student who graduated and she’s going into university in the fall. So, you know, being able to help her to that process because, you know, she asked me a lot of questions like, what is this? And how do you get orientation and mobility when you go to college? You know, things like that that they just don’t have the role models, they can talk to them about this. So you know, I’m the teacher, but sometimes I joke that I like I can also be like that, you know, counselor, like, come and talk to me about, like, extra resources outside of the school. Because, you know, the school can only do so much right? When they graduate and they go out into the real world, it’s when it really becomes scary in a way, because they don’t know what to expect. And depending on where you go or university, I mean, even depending on what Well, professor, you have, it could really lead to other situations that you’re going to need someone to reach out to and have that type of encouragement. So it has been wonderful that this one little student, this little kid who was like probably 8 or 7 at the time, changed my life completely because I was like, okay, this is where I want to be and where I need to be. It has been amazingly wonderful to be able to help one student at a time.

Donna J. Jodhan: I think this is great. Many of our listeners may not realize that the Governor Morehead School serves students with multiple disabilities as well as blindness. How do you adapt Braille instruction? How do you adapt instruction for children who have additional learning or physical challenges.

Veronica Puente: So for my other students so I have a pretty good amount of students who are, I guess you will say academic, but I also have some of the students who might have other disabilities like intellectual disabilities, or perhaps, you know, their tactile discrimination is not the best. So with them, what I try to use a lot of the time is more hands on. I mean, Braille is all hands down, but it’s more like manipulatives, right? So I use, like, the Braille Legos. I have this, like, puppet where they can pop in the Braille cells. I have this I think it’s called a screen braille cell. So they can take the pegs out and create the letters, like, one at a time. So we do writing with the pro writer, but I try to bring in things where they’re using their hands, not just their fingers, but like, using their hand to manipulate, how to move different dots around, and they can feel the dots. Sometimes I have to take a book and rewrite it in flashcards so they can have multiple spaces, because some of my kids, they can only read Double Space and getting Braille books and double space and contracted is very difficult. So a lot of the students that I have that have other disabilities, they don’t always get to learn the contractions, which is it’s not a big deal for me. Because what I’m trying to do at that level is teach them functional braille. And what that means is, like I’m teaching them the alphabet and teaching them the the math, some of those math symbols. So when they graduate, they can, you know, learn how to add like simple math equations. They can label their food or their spices or their microwave or, you know, the oven or the dishwasher, things like that.

Veronica Puente: Because, you know, they might not be able to learn all the contractions or be able to read a book like, I don’t know, The Great Gatsby or Jane Austen, and that’s totally fine. Like, they don’t have to go that far in their sense. Maybe out of my kids, I tell them you have an individual goal. That’s where we have the IEPs. But also you have an individual success story and you have your individual potential. So it’s not about, oh, this student got this far and I didn’t get this far. It’s about where you are going and your own individual journey and Braille. So that’s what I tried to do. Just make them part of the process. Right. Like, you know, usually talk to them and it’s like, hey, we’re going to work on your IP goals. What are some things you would like to work in the classroom? Obviously, you know, depending on the kid, if it’s my elementary kiddos that I have, you know, they’ll be like, oh, I want to play with Legos every day. Like, okay, we can’t do that now. You know, I can’t play Legos with you every day. We can’t play Uno every day. We gotta do some writing. So I try to kind of mix that in, so it’s a little bit of fun, but also like learning because, you know, that has to happen. They they need to learn how to write and how to read. And it takes it takes time to get to know your student individually and understand, okay, this student will benefit from this activity, or I need more hands on with this student, or we’re going to use the desktop a tool with the student. So I do a little bit of everything, if you will.

Donna J. Jodhan: I’m just curious. Do they still use the Perkins Broiler? Like the the big yes thing?

Veronica Puente: So, yes. So primarily I have a couple of students who use the brothers play, so I’m. I’m kind of funny. I’m the kind of teacher who I don’t give a Braille display to any student just because I have to have them get into a level where they can read a whole book. And by that, I don’t mean like, you know, like I said they’re already grasping, like they don’t have to read a book that that big, but they have to read a book from front to back in. They had to be also mature for me to give them a broad display because those those are expensive. They’re like, you know what? 2000 to like $6,000. Yeah. So they’re not cheap devices at all. So I’m very particular, if you will, with how I’m giving the the student abroad display and why. So I have them use the writer a lot because I feel like they need to learn how to write and how to read it first. I want to work more in the same style, but that is a process. Like, some of my students run away from that.

Veronica Puente: You know.

Veronica Puente: Because they think it’s too difficult and it’s like, no, it’s that it’s gonna be fine. So that’s definitely something that I want to work more on. But yeah, we use the writer a whole lot. Like I said, for me, I feel like I want them to think about what they’re writing, how to, you know, set up the synthesis, where the comma goes, where’s the period, like all those things that they really need to work on. And I know a lot of kids nowadays don’t really like to write whether they’re excited or blind. You know, they’re like, why? Why do I do that? It’s like, you still need to learn how to write. So but yeah, I primarily use the Perkins Braille writer, but I do have some students that have the braille display, but those are mostly high school students who have the pro display.

Donna J. Jodhan: What about the good old stylus? And guide? Is that still around?

Veronica Puente: You know, I don’t. I think it is, but I don’t think a lot of people use it that much. I, I don’t I seen it and I think I was introduced to it when I was younger before. You know, when I was in school or whatever, but I don’t think people use it that much. At least not that I know of, I know I don’t.

Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. I understand that you coordinate the Eastern North Carolina regional Braille challenge. What goes into staging that event and why is a little healthy competition so powerful for young Braille readers?

Veronica Puente: So for me, I’ve been helping out with the challenge for, I don’t know, three or 4 or 5 years as a volunteer. But really, when I stepped into this new role as a teacher, I’ve been organizing and more. We do it with library for the blind here in Raleigh. Talking books. So I don’t organize, like, the whole thing, But I do organize a lot of like, the kids in my school and, you know, getting the writers together. So it’s it’s a lot of work. I would say it’s a whole lot of work. But for me personally, I think the most important part of the challenge, I mean, it is that I want my students to do well. I want them to try. I don’t want them just to sit there and don’t try their best. But for me, the most important thing is that I’m exposing my kids to Braille literacy, and they are getting to meet other kids in the community that maybe they don’t know of. So it’s to me, it’s powerful because it’s like, you know, they don’t. You typically see other competitions, but this competition is unique for those kids who are blind. You know, so being able to say, hey, you know, you can do this and you can probably, you know, go to nationals and get prepared for that.

Veronica Puente: You know, that’s like a pretty awesome thing that not all the kids who are blind and visually impaired have that opportunity. So when I look at the broad challenge, I see it as like, yes, I want you to work and I want you to do your best. But more than that, I want you to see other people who are in the same page where you are. And I want you to be encouraged by knowing that it’s not just you. I know you know the school for the blind. We have, of course, you know, every other kid has a visual impairment or all the kids have visual impairments, but some seen more than others. So for me, it’s important for them to meet other kids in the community. And then we get volunteers sometimes who are visually impaired themselves. So they kind of do get to see other role models. So it’s a really cool thing because it’s it is, you know, competing academically, but also having the opportunity to meet other kids that they might have not able to meet otherwise without having that opportunity to go.

Donna J. Jodhan: How long does this competition last like? Is it over a few days or.

Veronica Puente: It’s generally a day. So it’s usually in the morning. So they have the testing in the morning, usually for like like 9 a.m. to like 12. So but they’re very they’re very the tests are pretty hardcore I would say because you know, they get like 25 minutes to do a session. So it’s like 25 minutes to do spelling and 25 minutes to do reading, and then 25 minutes to do the graphics, which the graphics are like for the older kiddos. So they divide them into like, I think it’s like four, 4 or 5 different groups. So they all have different levels. So they’re pretty quick tests. So it’s like, okay, here’s your timer. You want to do this and then you finish. And then in the afternoons we usually have like activities for the kids. So like we have last year the science the science museum came over and show us some different, like astronauts stuff like rockets and different things like that. So we also have a meeting for the parents. So when they come in in the mornings and their kids are testing, the parents meet with other people to learn about, you know, IP. So to learn about advocacy and things like that. So we it’s, you know, it’s a program for the kids, but it also benefits the parents or any guardian or family member who comes and get to sit in that in the morning in that panel where they get to know different information and different resources. So it’s a pretty it’s that’s why it takes a lot of work because it’s like a lot of different pieces. But it’s pretty awesome.

Donna J. Jodhan: Now it’s held every year right.

Veronica Puente: Yes. Yeah. It’s typically I think it’s like from it’s open from January through like March. So I mean we just usually pick a day for the eastern one. And usually the western part of the state will pick like, you know, another day like in February or March. So it goes from, you know, every single day in the United States. But they pick and I think it’s other countries too. But they everybody has like this period for like three months where they can pick a day and then they will do that, choose that day to do their challenge and that region.

Donna J. Jodhan: So this goes like it. Does it go national?

Veronica Puente: Yes, yes. So once the students do their tests, they send it to the Braille Institute. And the Braille Institute is in Los Angeles, I believe. So they will send the the scores to them and then the institute will figure out, you know, who won first and second place in the category for the whole country. And I think other countries as well. And then those kids will get code for nationals. And nationals typically happen sometime in the middle of June. So yeah. And I think if they go to nationals, they can even go to like an international competition. I’m not quite sure, to be honest. But yeah, it has different levels, like stay local level and then go into nationals.

Donna J. Jodhan: Wow.

Veronica Puente: Yes.

Donna J. Jodhan: Sounds really exciting.

Veronica Puente: Yeah, it’s a pretty big deal. That’s why it takes a lot of work and a lot of collaboration, that’s for sure.

Donna J. Jodhan: Is it like, what are the age groups that it’s open to, like, as young as how old?

Veronica Puente: As old? Is this young as, like, elementary. So that’s the elementary age all the way to high school.

Donna J. Jodhan: Okay.

Veronica Puente: Okay. Yeah. So.

Donna J. Jodhan: Wow.

Veronica Puente: Yes. It’s a lot of fun, too, but it could be a little bit intense.

Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah, I bet, and I bet the kids get all excited about it, too.

Veronica Puente: They do? They’re they’re very excited about about participating in, like I said, we know they get excited. They do their tests in the morning, and then they get to have fun in the afternoon, which, you know, they’re always like that.

Donna J. Jodhan: Now during during your undergraduate years you crowdfunded an entire semester In Italy with your guide dog, Red. Did you name him after Fred? Flintstones. Sorry.

Veronica Puente: What? No.

Donna J. Jodhan: What did traveling abroad teach you about cultural attitudes toward blindness? And how has that shaped your teaching philosophy back home?

Veronica Puente: So when I did my study abroad it was for a whole summer program, and I went to Italy, which was amazing. The people were very friendly. But I will say getting there was a challenge. Because I was taking my service dog, and I, I think people in Italy were like, they have dogs, but they’re like tiny dogs. And my guide dog was like £75. So, yeah, a lot of the. Because, you know, Italy is very historical. So a lot of the public places I realized were not accessible. You know, like the elevators were too small. Stairs were very narrow. Like, it was just it’s. Italy is a beautiful country, but I feel like it has a lot of work to do as far as, like, making things accessible for people who are, you know, disabled. And of course, you know, this is just my own personal opinion, but like, I remember walking in the streets and there will be cars parked in the sidewalk, and I was like, why are you doing that? You know, like, I’m trying. So I will have to go off the sidewalk and try to go around the car because people will just park anywhere. And so I don’t know entirely the, you know, educational standards for Italy, for people who are blind or visually impaired. But it’s my understanding that is not the best.

Veronica Puente: And like I said, people were very friendly. But I noticed that a lot of people didn’t understand why I have the dog. Or either they were like, oh, the dog is too big. But it was honestly mostly adults. Like, the kids love my guide dog. They were like an odd because he was beautiful and he was tall and he was big, and it was just adorable because I remember at one point, I think we were in Sorento and we had gone out to eat. And, you know, Fred was like with me and I had a line of like little boys who were just standing there looking at my dog like, oh my God, he’s amazing. I was like, what? So it was adorable to see that. But like, the the most issues I had getting around with the service dog was really the adults, which also happens a lot in the States. So I don’t know that that’s like an international thing. I think that’s just adult superior, like not not understanding what the dog does and doesn’t do. But you know, I feel like going to Italy really opened my mind to like at that point I have been blind for like, oh God, I don’t know, maybe. Six, seven years. And I had gone initially to adjustment training for blindness here in North Carolina. But going to Italy made me realize that I wasn’t as prepared as I thought I was.

Veronica Puente: So I kind of had to reframe my mindset. And and then I decided to go to the Louisiana Center for the blind after I graduated from my undergrad with my undergrad degree. So the Luciana Center for the blind is affiliated with the National Federation of the blind, and they do training, and it’s extremely intense. So it’s a lot of work and it’s more hands on, And they don’t. They had higher expectations. I think that’s what it is. So it really allowed me to see, like, hey, if you’re going to go travel abroad, that doesn’t mean you don’t need to ask for help. Or, you know, you might be confused with where you’re going, but you need to have better skills to feel more comfortable with who you are. And I feel like going to Italy, I realized that I wasn’t as comfortable as I thought I was with, with visual impairments and being blind. So that’s why I decided, you know, after I graduate, I’m going to go to the Louisiana Center for the blind and learn those skills that I don’t have. And I think a lot of it was I was capable, but I didn’t have the confidence to just do what I needed to do and ask for the help I needed at that time.

Veronica Puente: Like I was too conscious of my disability, if that makes sense. So you know, for me, learning that was really hard, but it was also very insightful because I like okay, now knowing what I know I need to, what am I going to do about it? So it was kind of like that moment in my life. I was like, okay, Veronica, you know, you struggle. What are you going to do? Are you going to ignore it or are you going to do something about that? And that’s what I did, something about it. And it was a very difficult training, but it was also amazing. So I was really grateful to do that. And so now when my students ask me, you know, going overseas and it’s like, make sure you ready you know, make sure you are able to explain your disability and say, this is what I need. This is what I don’t need. You know, don’t be afraid of asking for help when you need to ask. But, you know, be smart about it. Like, you know, you don’t want to ask. You know, somebody if you don’t feel comfortable. Because obviously, if you feel some type of way, then there’s probably something They are. So it really helped me, you know, see where I was and kind of reevaluate where I wanted to go.

Donna J. Jodhan: How long did Fred live for?

Veronica Puente: Oh, God. Fred was pretty whole when he passed on. He lived until. 14.

Donna J. Jodhan: Whoa.

Veronica Puente: Yeah. Yeah. So he was pretty elderly when he passed on, so I retired him. Because that was another thing where Fred and I went to Italy. He was good, but I think it took a lot on him. Because we went in the summertime and it was extremely crowded. So I think for him it was like a lot like all the people in the city. And it was just it was just a lot for him. So when we came back, we still worked together for like maybe a couple of years, but I could tell he was getting to the point where he was like, okay, I’m done. Like, this is not cool. So when I went to Louisiana to do training. I decided to retire him then, because I could tell he was going to be more happy just being a pet and not, you know, being wandering around. And he did. He he lived for another, like, you know, six years or so after that. And he had a really good life. So he was an amazing dog. He really was. He always went different places, but I could tell that, you know, going to Italy was a lot for him.

Donna J. Jodhan: Was that your first dog?

Veronica Puente: Yes. He was.

Donna J. Jodhan: What kind of dog was he?

Veronica Puente: He is he was a black lab.

Donna J. Jodhan: Oh, gosh.

Veronica Puente: Yes. Yeah.

Donna J. Jodhan: So that you rely on Braille every day for things as mundane as grocery lists and as joyful as leisure reading. Could you share a couple of concrete strategies that parents can use Braille to weave. That parents can use to weave Braille naturally into family life.

Veronica Puente: Yeah.

Veronica Puente: So I think having games in the house. So, you know, like, now there’s a lot of accessible games out there. Like, I think target is carrying a Uno cards umbrella. You know, having games that are made accessible to Braille, that’s a really good opportunity because it has the pro and the print so the kids can play along with family. I think having Braille around the house, like maybe labeling like the milk or something that labels the cereal umbrella. So you could see is that because I think you know, the sighted kids, they just look around, right? And they see the print everywhere so they can associate, okay, that’s Walmart or that is, you know, means drier or whatever, but a blind kiddo might not. You have to be very intentional how you set things up. So setting things up in the house as simple as like dryer or putting a label for like, you know, microwave or you know, what I think is the coolest thing is to do bedtime reading. You know, having a book that is print in Braille. And getting those books and reading it to your kids so they can follow along with you can read the print and they can follow along by looking at the Braille. And even if they’re tiny, they can’t really read the words like, that’s not the point. The point is that you exposing the kids to the Braille as learned as early as possible, so it can be a literacy enriched environment. And that means having the Braille and having a lot of print. So, you know, I think a lot of times parents, you know, I always get this, which is like, I find it like I, I understand it, but, you know, I had to talk to the parents a lot because they’re like.

Veronica Puente: Well, we.

Veronica Puente: Can’t practice with her because we can’t read Braille and I like, but that’s not the point. You can get the same copy of the bird book and print, and you can read along with your with your kid and your kid is reading. And of course, if they get stuck in something umbrella, you know, you can tell them what the word is. And it doesn’t have to be perfect, but it has to be done. You know, it has to be intentional, and it has to be part of that environment of the house, like it needs to be. Where like you walk in and you see Braille, not a lot, but like everywhere, if that makes sense. You know, Braille there and Braille over there, and there’s like little pieces of Braille here and there. And the kids grow to like expect that. And when they expect that, then they’re for them. It’s fun. And it’s not like, oh, this is like some job I have to do, you know, housework I have to do. No, like, you make it fun with your kids and you, you know, hopefully also help. If you have other kids, you can help the other kids as well to, you know, learn what is Braille. And have them getting used to that. From a young age, like the earlier you can start, the better.

Donna J. Jodhan: You think parents, you know, are they happy to learn Braille along with their kids?

Veronica Puente: I think sometimes parents are just intimidated by the whole thing of learning Braille. Like they think it’s too much. And this is not just the parents. Like, it’s, you know, sighted people that I have worked with before. It’s like, you know, I often get people like they say, oh, it’s a whole new language. And it’s like, no, it’s not, it’s, it’s a, it’s a code. It’s a reading code. So it’s not like you’re not learning the rules of that language. Like you’re not conjugating verbs like, you know. It’s still there’s still English rules that go along with the Braille. So I think a lot of times parents just get intimidated by like, oh my God, how do I learn that, you know? How can I how can I do that with my kid? I do think some parents are excited, but, you know, sometimes it is the the unknown, right? That’s what really gets them. Like the how do I do this? How do I access this? Like I want my kid to develop like their siblings if they have, you know, siblings or like a regular child or age, but they just don’t know what’s possible. So what I learned from my kids is that a lot of the times, the parents don’t know, and they’re intimidated and they’re afraid, and so they let it. They will leave that to us teachers to do that job for them, which is fine. But teachers can only do so much. Right? So like, even if I try to get my kid to Braille for Monday to Friday, they go home on the weekends and if they don’t use that, then it’s really not part of who they are.

Veronica Puente: And kids are really smart. Like they learn to separate that. They learn to separate and associate. Like, oh, Braille is part of schoolwork. And not like Braille is part of everyday, you know, from the like you’re saying from the small things of like, oh, I’m gonna label the spices and I’m going to be able to read it and help my parents cook. That’s a really easy activity you can do. You know, you can label the spices and you’re like, okay, let’s make a cake or something like, can you find the cinnamon? You know, like there’s a lot of ways the parents can do this, but I think a lot of the times they just don’t know or they intimidate it and they find it way to they think it’s too much, but it’s really not like you just have to scale it and take it one, one step at a time, and maybe just find that one activity you would like with your kids to do. Maybe it’s playing the Uno or doing a game night or, you know, helping them, helping them help you measure, you know, things in the kitchen or help you find spices like make it. Just pick one thing you want to do and stick with that until you can add something else. Don’t try to do everything at one time, but I definitely think parents, it’s not that they don’t want to. Obviously they want what’s best for the kids. They just don’t know how to go about it.

Donna J. Jodhan: I think we both cared deeply about the expanded core curriculum. Where do you see the biggest gaps in IC delivery across the United States, and how are you addressing those gaps in your own practice?

Veronica Puente: So I think, you know, for the IC, it’s funny because, you know, growing up, I absolutely know what was that until I went into my master’s program. So I think that’s one of the things that is like, well, I feel like a kid should be part of the process, right? Like this is their education so they can actually know what the heck that is. And what are the nine the different nine areas of the IC. Right. Yeah. So I feel like from what I can see, we focus a whole lot in assistive technology, which is great. Like we need it, right? I mean, I’m, you know, I use a computer with the screen reader with jaws. I use the pearl display. I use the iPad with the voiceover. I use my phone with the voiceover. So all those things are great. But you know, we don’t focus on braille literacy or compensatory access. That’s really what it’s called. And and we don’t really focus as much. And self-determination. I feel like those are the things, like we always talk about, oh, independent living skills, let’s do the cooking or let’s do the grocery shopping. And it’s like, okay, that’s great. But we don’t focus on the literacy part of it. So like the literacy part is like, how do you articulate yourself and write in an email. How do you write a simple grocery list and Braille? Like, how do you take down a phone number for. Maybe you want to call somebody? You know, those little things that are really not that difficult because you can. When it comes to the standard curriculum, you can like combine like two different sections in one lesson, like two different areas of that.

Veronica Puente: You know, you can do the independent living skill lesson where you have Braille and you have to do the recipe, and that will be combining those two. Right. You can have the self-determination. It’s like, okay, which what kind of book would you like to read? Oh, let’s do an advocacy lesson where you have to explain to me what your vision is. So I feel like from what I’ve seen, we don’t focus in the literacy enough. And that means, you know, like I said, the reading, the writing, the math because there is a math component where when you write it in Braille and we tell the kids, yeah, this is your education. But when it comes down to it, how much do we allow them to understand where they’re going and how they can get there? Right? Like, because, I mean, I have students before where they’re like, oh, I want to do engineering. And then it’s like, I have them do like a research paper where they have to tell me what type of skills they need for that job. And then they come back and it’s like, oh, it’s Veronica, I don’t like math. And I’m like, well, maybe engineering is nothing. You know, maybe, maybe engineering is not the best path. So I don’t tell my students, you can’t do this. But I’m like, okay, let’s like, take a moment and see what do you need to get there? And if you are willing to put in the work to become the engineer or the doctor or the astronaut or, you know, whatever, then that’s wonderful.

Veronica Puente: But if you come in research and you know you don’t have the desire to get better in the math or get better and whatever that is, then perhaps you shouldn’t be aiming for that job, you know? So trying to get the opportunity to say, okay, let’s let’s talk about what your goals will be. What are you. Where did you see yourselves? You know, like because then the the sec they the way we should teach them, I think. And this might be my personal opinion. Like we have to be very intentional, but we had to kind of start with the end goal in mind. And by that, I mean you kind of have to start with like, okay, this student would like to be this, this is this career path. Let’s expose the student to what would that look like every day, having those mentors and maybe do some job shadowing and trying to figure out, is this what you really want to do? And if it is, then that’s wonderful. We can work towards that. But you know, before you get there you have to do x, Y and Z, right? So it’s not like I’m going to get up one morning and decide to run a marathon like I have to, you know, run first and do A5K or take K or what have you. So I think a lot of times we talk about success, but what does that look like. Because, you know, everybody has their own individual potential and everybody has their own journey.

Veronica Puente: So we have to, you know, step back a little bit and realize that we are educators here to give the kids the tools to reach that goal. I’m not here to, you know, make you my project or my independence independent personal project where I can help you get to where I want you to get this is your education, your job. Like, you know, I usually tell my students that, like Miss Veronica, what, can you do this like I yeah. Because, you know, I really graduated high school. Like, I don’t need to go through the math. This is your job. I’m here to support you and give you the the tools you need. But I’m not here to do your quadratic equation like I like. I’ve already been through this, you know. So I guess I have high expectations for my kids, and I, I wanted to give them the choices because it’s really about that, right? Like, it’s about, you know, self-advocacy, like self-determination. Where do you want to be? This is this is not my life. This is your life. This is you are the one who’s going to graduate and go out there and try to get a job. You are the one who’s going to have to face those situations where people might or might not discriminate against you because you’re blind. So how would you approach that? How can you tell your boss this is how much I can or can’t see? This is the type of disability I have. This is the accommodations I need. You need to know that I don’t.

Donna J. Jodhan: Nice.

Veronica Puente: Yeah.

Donna J. Jodhan: So many educators struggle to motivate sighted peers to learn Braille basics. How do you foster an inclusive culture among colleagues so that tactile literacy becomes everyone’s responsibility, not just the TV’s?

Veronica Puente: So this is something that I’m still working with right now. Is this a process? I’m grateful that I have a new principal who started this past year, so. And I think he has that by background. He’s not visually impaired himself, but he has, you know, the TV, the orientation of ability. So he understands that this is like a legitimate concern that, you know, sighted people. And I think it’s like like I mentioned before. Right. Like they intimidated by learning Braille. They think it’s too hard, too difficult. It takes too much. So we are hoping to be able to start, like, lessons, maybe on Fridays or, you know, maybe lunchtime on Wednesdays or something like that, where I can have, like, kind of like open hours where some of my coworkers can come in and I can teach them, hey, this is the basis of like, let’s start with the alphabet and then go from there. Because it is a concern that I think sometimes people think, well, I’m just going to give you the Braille display and you’re going to read it. And it’s like, that’s not how it works. Because with the display, the students can only see one line at a time, sometimes not even one line. So they’re tracking skills, doesn’t go, doesn’t get better. And sometimes, you know, when they’re looking at the display, they don’t see that punctuation.

Veronica Puente: And the answer is an exclamation mark. Or if it’s a period or if it’s a question mark and they don’t read it, they don’t read properly. So their reading fluency goes out the window and it’s just not insisted. And it’s like, how do you help the kid get through that, so I think. You know, my new principal and I, we are hoping to start along with some other coworkers who are advice as well. Start, you know, that way we can do that. You know, maybe every other Friday or every Friday where we can say, hey, this is open hours. Come in and let’s learn about Braille. Let’s start from the beginning. Let’s teach you the basics. But let’s make it in a way that is not so challenging. And if it is challenging, then tell me why. Like, where do you struggle? Like, why do you not think this is important? And I think sometimes we have to have these conversations, right? That people are intimidated to have it. And sometimes it’s like you don’t want to learn Braille. You think it’s too much y. Like, honestly, honestly, tell me, what is the issue like? Because, you know, I can only teach people so much, but if I can’t change the mindset, which I might not be able to, you know, in the sense that I can, you know, get in to understand the barrel is important and it’s not dying because, I mean, that’s ridiculous, right? Like, that’s like saying literacy is dying.

Veronica Puente: Then if I can’t change that mindset or get into reframe that way of thinking, then there’s not much I can do beyond just teaching the protocol. Right. And in the school, maybe I can teach in the basics. But I think when you have a teacher who really sees for what it is and like how important it is, then they will integrate it more to their classes. But, you know, it’s a tricky situation because if it’s like, I’m going to teach you the basics and you have to come because I said so, then it’s kind of like, oh, well, I’m just going to learn this because I have to I’m going to just check that box, if you will. I still supposed to then really understand. No, this is not about Miss Veronica trying to, like, push you, but this is about your students and our students. You know, this is not about you supporting me. This is about you supporting your kids. It’s just about the kids. Period.

Veronica Puente: So it’s it’s like I said, something I’m still working towards, and I’m still trying to figure out how to do that, because I do think a lot of people who have some vision think it’s too difficult, it’s too hard, it’s too much, and they can never learn it. But I, I really think it’s because I know this is going to sound funny, but I think sometimes sighted people are too sighted. You know, it’s kind of like they have to see it. Otherwise there’s no way. And it’s like, no, you don’t, you don’t have to see it like this is if you were blind, you would be doing this this way. Like, we’re not amazing. Like, I’m not I don’t hear better than you do because I’m blind. I’m just more aware of what’s around me because obviously I can’t see. So I had learned to use those skills or those senses you would to if you would not rely on the site, but you do so. You know, they just think like, oh, you are the most amazing person I like and really not like. I still struggle every morning to get up like everybody else. Like I am not a morning person, so I am not amazing. Like I need coffee every day or otherwise it will be bad.

Donna J. Jodhan: Now your mentors describe you as remarkable, tenacious and diligent. Who mentored you earlier on and what lessons from them do you now consciously pass along to your own students?

Veronica Puente: So I think I have have a lot of mentors here and there in my life. It will be a lot, you know, to name. But the two that come in mind are my mom and Mr. James Benton. So, Mr. James Benton. He passed away in 2017. He was an amazing person. Like he worked at the school for the blind here in Raleigh. He worked for the Division of Services for the blind. He was like the, I think like the transition coordinator. So he was working with the younger kids, making sure that when they, you know, graduated high school, they were going to a job or to university, whatever it is that they needed to be going. And he was an amazing person because, you know, he would make things happen. And I like I like that because, you know, like I tell my students, sometimes we’re not going to be invited to that table. And you don’t need to just bring a chair and make a space, you know, like sometimes you have to you have to push things to make things happen. Or sometimes you have to learn when to walk away because people aren’t serving you. You know, people are going to not change their mindset. And then it’s like, what are you going to do about it? Are you just going to sit here and cry about it? Or are you going to do something to change that? And you might not be able to change the situation then, but you can work towards having a different outcome.

Veronica Puente: And I think that’s what Mr. Benton taught me. You know, he was the kind of person who will be like, well, we’re going to do this and we’re going to do this because, oh, if we are doing this, then why are we not doing that? You know, that sort of thing? He was totally blind. He always stood up for his rights as well. You know, he was the kind of person who was like, well, this is not accessible. So what are you going to do about it? Like, you know, he he wasn’t afraid of speaking out and calling people out when they needed to be called out. And that’s what I teach my kids is like, look, sometimes you’re going to have to be the unconscious person who says, hey, enough. Enough of this, enough of that. I’m not here to be your charity project. Like I’m here to get an education just like everybody else. And this is my dignity as a person who happens to be blind. I should have the same access like everybody else. So you know, when I think about what I want to do and when I think about, you know, when I’m having those days because I still, you know, sometimes have those days that I’m like, I can’t, I can’t deal with anybody today because, like, I literally just trying to throw my trash out, like I need people to start, stop me in every single corner and be like, hey, you need help? I’m like, no, not today.

Veronica Puente: You know, like, sometimes those days happen. But I remember how Mr. Benton was, like, undaunted. Like he just did what he needed to do. And if it didn’t work out, he’ll find another way to make it work. You know, for him, it wasn’t like. I mean, life was, you know, life was was what it was. And so I think for me, having him as a mentor was wonderful. And I think, you know, having my mom as a woman who, you know, moved here to the States with me, with no English. She passed away years ago as well. So, you know, she she was like a a woman who was quiet in her own way, but she was like one of those women who were had the strength to do what she needed to do for her kids. And, you know, I think a lot of times women aren’t really. You know, there’s sometimes there’s the question of like, are you capable of doing this or doing that just because of our gender? And it’s like I look up to my mom who deal with all of that, and who was a mom who had a visually impaired child like me, and she didn’t know what to do, you know? And I think a lot of times, parents don’t know what to do when they have a kid with a disability.

Veronica Puente: So, you know, she, you know, perhaps made mistakes, but, you know, we all do. And I think at the end of the day, she did what she could with what she had at that time. And so you know, I look up to her because she went through so much to be here and to do what she needed to do for her kids. But it was in such a way that she wasn’t, you know, she never gave up to do that. So I think for me, you know, having her and having her, Mr. Benton is like, I combined the two. You know, I was like, okay, I’m going to be determined and what I need to get done. But I’m also going to be, you know, that kind of person like Mr. Benton, who was not quiet when he needed to be. So it’s like it’s a it’s I feel like it’s a good combination of both.

Veronica Puente: You know.

Donna J. Jodhan: We’re almost out of time. And we’re off to the final question. So finally, Veronica, if you had five minutes alone Along with every educational minister in the world. What single policy change would you champion? Champion first to accelerate equitable literacy for blind learners.

Veronica Puente: So I think what I would talk or tell people, you know, educators, parents, whoever’s, you know, in a capacity working with somebody who’s blind, visually impaired. Maybe it’s not so much of a mean policy, but more like a philosophy of, like expectations, like higher expectations, but having respect. So I think it’s, you know, being able to come in the door and not come with concessions and assuming, you know, misconceptions and assuming like, well, this blind person can do this, all that blind person can do that. Because, you know, blindness is a spectrum. So we all different. You know, so like, for example, I have two kiddos who have the same eye condition, but they see totally different. And I think for me growing up it was really difficult because I remember sometimes I will be compared to one of my other peers and the classroom because, you know, he he was totally blind like me, but he had really good technology skills, and I didn’t and, you know, it would really get me down when I was compared, like, well, he’s doing that. What can you do that? You know, that sort of thing. And, you know, I had to learn English when I moved here to this day. So I was really struggling with that insecurity. So I think, you know, if I could give any lesson to an educator or a parent, it’s like, don’t think that every blind person is the same because we are all different.

Veronica Puente: So I would say come with an open mindset and willingness to learn from that person because, you know, maybe you went and got your master’s and you got a PhD and you’re all educated and you learn everything that’s learning about blindness. But at the end of the day, if you’re not blind, you don’t leave that reality every day like we do. You know, we know what it’s like to have to accommodate things that happen without us expecting that, you know, the, the transportation. Like, well, maybe the Uber didn’t pick me up because I have the guide dog, or I’m late for this because the transportation was late. Or can I go to that festival when there’s no accessibility in place? So can I even go watch that movie of that play if there’s no audio description? You know, those are things that we had to think about. And I think a lot of people don’t. And that’s just because that’s not a reality every day. So I would say be willing to learn. When you meet somebody who’s visually impaired, who’s blind, or you’re working with them like, don’t, don’t make it seem like, hey, well, I know everything that’s to learn. Like, you know, today I was in a presentation earlier and one of the ladies who was presenting, you know, she works for an agency that works for people with people who are blind and visually impaired.

Veronica Puente: And she said something like, oh, I use this app all the time because, you know, it reads to me and I’m a lazy, I don’t want to read or something like that. And then she said something like, I don’t need it, you know, thank God I’m not blind or something like that. And it’s like it really irritated me because when you are in a position like that and you say things like that, it’s perpetuating that idea that it’s like, well, you’re all blind, but I’m not. So therefore I’m better than you are, or I’m better off than you are because I can still see. And I’m like, what? Like, you are in a position where other people hear that and you are perpetuating this idea that not being able to see is awful, and it’s like the end of the world when it’s really not. So I would say you need to learn to have that willingness to learn and listen to us. You know, we are our allies. Don’t think like another project and another charity case, like, work with me and work with me. You know, don’t walk ahead of me. I used to say.

Veronica Puente: Hey, I got you. Or behind me like, oh, I’m going to pick you up when you need help. Like, work with me side by side so we can make a better future for all of us.

Donna J. Jodhan: And we’re almost out of time. And I want to thank you, Veronica, for a very, very insightful interview. I mean, my goodness, I think our listeners will learn a lot. And I want to thank you for dropping by to be on my interview, and I look forward to. You know, probably another interview with you in the future. See how you’re doing.

Veronica Puente: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here and just, you know, get people to really learn more about blindness and education and what it’s like for us to, you know, have the opportunity to be, you know, contribute to society and be here like everybody else’s.

Donna J. Jodhan: Thank you very much. And you have a good evening.

Veronica Puente: You, too. Thank you.

Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. Take care now. You too. Yeah.

Veronica Puente: Bye bye.

Donna J. Jodhan: Bye bye. Bye.

Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna. Hand at gmail.com. Until next time.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.