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In this wide-ranging episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan sits down with longtime advocate, author, and broadcaster Bob Branco for a wide-ranging conversation about growing up blind, building a life of creative independence, and choosing one’s relationship with technology on one’s own terms. Bob traces his path from a sight-saving class in New Bedford, Massachusetts to eight years at the Perkins School for the Blind, where he picked up the orientation and mobility skills, Braille fluency, and quiet confidence that still anchor his daily life, he notes he has been using the same Perkins Brailler for sixty-one years. He talks about what drove him to write My Home Away from Home and As I See It From a Blind Man’s Perspective, the nearly twenty-year run of his Consumer Vision magazine, his columns for Matilda Ziegler and the American Council of the Blind, and the hundreds of episodes he has produced of In Perspective and Sports Roundtable since 2017.
The second half of the conversation turns to a quietly radical position: Bob has built a full life, writing, publishing, broadcasting, running a disability bowling league for three decades, hosting weekly phone chats, trivia nights, and music request hours, without ever owning a cell phone. He relies on a landline, a computer, his Brailler, and an Alexa device, and he pushes back gently but firmly on a world that treats constant connectivity, QR codes, self-checkouts, and press-one-for-this automation as progress. Donna and Bob find shared ground around the erosion of human touch in customer service, the enduring importance of Braille, and Bob’s parting advice to manage time carefully, recognize when you are overwhelmed, and do things in moderation. The two close by looking ahead to April 20, when Donna will join Bob and his crew on Sports Roundtable to talk hockey.
TRANSCRIPT
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Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA, invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I’m Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and a stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate and accessibility consultant and author, Lifelong barrier buster, who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to cited ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty. S Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I’m not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio, you’ll find me teaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you now to think of this show as your shared workbench, where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today’s conversation, let me shine a quick spotlight on today’s guest, a change maker whose work is as every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to change. Bob Branco I am pleased, I am delighted. I am honored to have you on my podcast. Welcome.
Bob Branco: Well, it’s it’s a thank you, Donna. It’s a pleasure to be on this program.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good. So, Bob, I don’t know when was when was it that we first met? Probably a few years ago. Right.
Bob Branco: I believe it was about 2 or 3 years ago.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: I first heard about you.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And you approached me. I have been on your podcast a few times. Now it’s time for me to have you on my podcast. And I’ve been following you admiring the guests that you’ve had on your podcast. So let’s start at the beginning, Bob. I love to begin at the beginning for listeners who are just getting to know you, how would you describe your early life in New Bedford and the path that has led you to Perkins School for the blind?
Bob Branco: I was born and raised in New Bedford, Massachusetts.
Bob Branco: At one time in my life I had sight. I was always legally blind. But when I was younger, I was able to see.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: Be that as it may, I spent the first several years of my schooling in a sight saving class. Now, what that means is I was in a room with several other children who had vision problems. There weren’t that many of us in the class, so the teacher gave us a lot more attention than she normally would have had we been a normal class size.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: After grade four, it was determined that I should go to Perkins School for the blind.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, okay.
Bob Branco: I believe the state insisted that I go because I remember my parents were upset at the time. I don’t believe it was my parents who thought of the idea. I think the state came to them and said, there’s not much more we can do for Bob in New Bedford, so he needs to go to a private school for the blind and where Perkins is located in Massachusetts. I suppose that was a fair compromise. I would get to go home on weekends and be with my family then, and live at the school and learn what I needed to learn until I graduated from Perkins.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Wow. So as someone who knows how deeply our early experiences shape us, I’d love to ask this question. When you look back on your years at Perkins, what moments most helped to form your confidence, your identity, and your sense of what was possible as a blind person?
Bob Branco: I think the best way for me to answer that question is to simply say, as I learned new things and realized that I could do them well, it helped me gain more confidence in myself. Here’s a good example. Orientation and mobility. Right? Not only did I learn how to use a cane at Perkins, but I learned how to cross streets. I learned how to tell when the parallel traffic was coming. When the perpendicular traffic was coming at a main street. I learned how to use the audible traffic signals because in Watertown, Massachusetts, there were audible traffic signals that you used to cross the busy streets.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right?
Bob Branco: But but as I continued to learn mobility, I recognized that the techniques I learned really had nothing to do with whether there was an audible signal, because there would not always be an audible traffic signal whenever I crossed the street. Okay. So what I learned was to not cross the street unless the parallel traffic started, because when the parallel. I’m sorry. When the parallel traffic stopped.
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Bob Branco: Or. Okay, I’m trying to think what it was. Anyway, I learned the technique back in the day, so I learned when to cross and when not to cross, even without an audible traffic signal.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay. Any experiences that stick out in your mind during that time of your life that you know, were you scared? Were you you said I, I know I can cross the street. Was there any moment that stuck out in your mind during that time?
Bob Branco: Not that I can think of at the moment, I’m sure. Like with anything else, some things that we learn were not afraid of. While other things that we learn we can be afraid of to a point.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Are you one of those who gets nervous quickly? Or you say I’m, I’m going to catch this and I’m going to deal with it.
Bob Branco: I think it depends on the circumstance. If there are things that I know I can handle, I’m able to pass the test, so to speak, without being nervous about it. There are some things that I learned at school that I was afraid. As a matter of fact, one of them was swimming. I was I was very fearful of being in the water, especially the deep end.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Tell us why.
Bob Branco: In a sense, I was petrified.
Bob Branco: But as I learned more and more about the techniques involved with swimming, I was a little bit more confident in myself, despite my fears.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Is it because you didn’t have vision or is it because it was you, Bob? The person.
Bob Branco: It was me, Bob the person. It had nothing to do with what little vision I had at the time.
Bob Branco: I suppose you could get up to maybe perhaps being inexperienced or maybe a fear of the unknown, so to speak.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. So you’re saying it was mainly you?
Bob Branco: Yes.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: Exactly.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. I’m especially interested in the foundations of independence. How important were Braille, adaptive skills and the discipline of learning to do things for yourself in shaping everything that came later in your life and career?
Bob Branco: Very, very important. Everything was significant at the time. Obviously, the fact that I knew Braille helped me to be independent when I read. When I read books.
Bob Branco: Because back then, Braille was one of the more primary resources for a blind person. Today, there are many other alternatives. Obviously, because of all the adaptive technology that’s out there. When I was at Perkins, there wasn’t as much adaptive technology as there is today. There were a couple of things, but it wasn’t anywhere near what it is now.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Do you think that Braille is still very important in your life, and more so should we still be promoting Braille?
Bob Branco: Braille is just as important in my life today as it was back then. And I wish it was just as important for everybody else with a vision impairment. Some people don’t use it as much as I do. There might even be some blind people who don’t use it at all. And as I said, you’ve got all this adaptive technology now, speech devices and talking devices and all the other things that Braille may not be as necessary for some people as it is for others.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you’re saying it is still very necessary for you?
Bob Branco: I’d like to think so, yes, I depend on it as much today as I did back then.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Give us some examples of how you use Braille.
Bob Branco: I use Braille to take notes for myself to help me remember things. Or if I happen to correspond with somebody who’s blind, I would like to write them a Braille letter, particularly if they don’t have email, because I do a lot of emailing as it is.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: But if I wanted to write a letter or mail a letter out to somebody, I have no problem writing it in Braille because that’s what I’m used to doing.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: In fact, I learned Braille before I went to Perkins. I learned Braille in second grade during my time at the sight saving class.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay.
Bob Branco: I already knew Braille when I arrived at Perkins.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, so what are the mechanisms you use for when when you interact with Braille, do you use a Perkins Brailler? Do you use a pocket slate? What do you use?
Bob Branco: I learned the Perkins Brailler and I also learned the slate stylus. I found that the slate and stylus were very, very tricky for me because you had to do things backwards. Right, right. Those of you who know the slate and stylus might know what I’m talking about when I say that.
Bob Branco: So I gradually stopped using the slate and stylus. If I had to use it today, I could. But I find that a lot slower and a little more inconvenient. So yes, I use the Perkins Brailler. Even today I’ve been using the Perkins Brailler now for 61 years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. And you, you know, you use Braille a lot. Give us some examples as to other examples as to how you use Braille in addition to writing and stuff like that. Do you have a Braille display?
Bob Branco: I do not use a Braille display. Okay. I’ve heard about them. I know people who use them. I might have used them a few times myself just to try them out. But the Braille displays are not items that I really gotten myself attached to. Not really.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you still read books in Braille?
Bob Branco: Yes I do. And a lot of bills and sports schedules and things that I ask for, even things that I don’t ask for. I get in the mail and they’re in Braille. There are accessible features where blind people can access their phone bills their baseball schedules, their basketball schedules. There are organizations that provide that material in accessible format for blind people who are interested in getting them.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What about Braille crossword puzzles? Do you know? Do you know anything about that, or do you use them?
Bob Branco: I think I used Braille crossword puzzles maybe way back in the day. I seem to recall doing it once or twice.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: I have used a Braille Scrabble game. I played Braille Scrabble on several occasions.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: Braille bingo.
Bob Branco: I have a checkerboard that blind people use. It’s not necessarily in Braille, but it’s designed for blind people and has the necessary features for a blind person to navigate checkers. So I use that a lot, too.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you still play checkers? Stuff like that.
Bob Branco: I do.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Dominoes.
Bob Branco: I have played dominoes occasionally. Yes, I don’t play them today, but I have played them in the past.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. All right. So you later wrote a book called My Home Away from Home about your time at Perkins?
Bob Branco: That’s correct.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What moved you to tell that story, and what did you most want blind and sighted readers to understand about growing up, learning, and finding your place in the world?
Bob Branco: What drove me to write the book about Perkins was the fact that I loved talking to people about my time at Perkins. I love sharing memories of my time at Perkins. So one day I said, you know what? Maybe I should put all of this down on paper. So I did.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. And how long were you at Perkins?
Bob Branco: I was at Perkins for eight years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: And in answer to your second question. I was hoping that my story would somehow relate well to other blind people who may or may not have had my experiences.
Bob Branco: Maybe it was a form of education in a way, to teach them how I could handle a school for the blind, in case some of the blind people who read my book or knew about my book would not necessarily know what it’s like.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You still think that Perkins is an important part for anyone who has the opportunity to go there?
Bob Branco: Perkins has changed, Donna. It’s not the same school as it was when I left. It has evolved into a different kind of an environment. It now services Multi-handicapped kids. Many people with the desire to go to college. Now, who are blind are now being mainstreamed in public schools thanks to legislation that allowed that to happen back in the day.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So it has undergone a lot of changes since you were there.
Bob Branco: Yes it has.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So your writing has such an honest and direct quality to it. What did you when did you first realize that your personal experiences with blindness could become a form of public education and advocacy?
Bob Branco: That’s hard to say, because I’d like to think that I’ve been an advocate for a long, long time. I was advocating for the rights of persons with disabilities when I was in college back in the early 80s.
Bob Branco: So I think I was an advocate for at least 40 years. However, there was a time when I decided to write just to share my experiences with the public. Now there’s another book that I wrote in relation to what you’re talking about called as I See It From A Blind Man’s Perspective.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: Which was a book about how I perceive blindness and what it meant to me personally.
Bob Branco: But in the book, there was some education about blindness in general and about how it’s dealt with by most of us, not just about me.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So do you think that advocacy is a combination of writing and speaking and doing other things, or is it just mainly one aspect?
Bob Branco: Oh, I think you’re right. I think advocacy involves communication.
Bob Branco: Networking, sticking up for oneself or sticking up for, you know, colleagues or fellow blind people or, or whoever you’re advocating for. I think it’s a combination of a lot of things.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay. So in books like as I see it and the Waiting Things Up series, you’ve written about blindness, technology, employment, bureaucracy, and everything else about life. As you look across the years, which barriers have changed the most and which ones have.
Screen Reader: Left buried.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Have been far too stubborn?
Bob Branco: Oh, okay. That’s a broad question. I would say I would say that society has progressed in many areas, while in other areas I question it. Now I can get more specific if you would like, but that would be the summary of of my answer to that question.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Get more specific. Let’s hear from you.
Bob Branco: Okay. Technology is fine, but sometimes I think it’s being taken for granted.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: Because take the field of customer service, for example.
Bob Branco: I want to talk to human beings on the phone. When I ask for service. I don’t want to be dealing with constant automation all the time. I would rather speak with people who sympathize and empathize and want to help other people. I know that I would like to be that kind of a person helping other people. I do it all the time, right? But to to reach automation and press one for this and press two for that.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
Bob Branco: Press three if you have to go to the bathroom. I mean, I’m exaggerating, but you get what I’m saying. Yep. That is so inhumane. I understand that it’s fascinating. I love technology myself. I just don’t feel that I want to take it for granted. I mean, technology is very convenient for me. Without it, I might not have been able to write all the books that I’ve written. Right, right. But a good example of what you’re asking me about would be customer service.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: How would you change that, though?
Bob Branco: I don’t know if I could change it. I could come up with ideas on how it could be changed.
Bob Branco: I think there should be an incentive for more and more people to continue working at the phones. Without people like me and you, depending on automation to get the answers that we need.
Bob Branco: I’m not really sure as to why the human component of customer services is gradually being placed in the background. I suppose technology has a lot to do with it because, as I said, people love technology. People want to use it as much as possible, so they incorporate it in their workplaces as much as possible.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Would you say then that technology has taken away the human touch in many ways, and how has this affected blind and visually impaired people?
Bob Branco: In some ways, technology has replaced the human touch. I’m not saying that there is no human touch. There certainly is. I appreciate the fact that there still is. But if you’re talking about how technology has replaced it, I think to some degree, not always, but to some degree it has replaced what should be constant human touch.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Is that a barrier for blind and visually impaired people, do you think?
Bob Branco: I don’t know if it’s a barrier for just the blind and visually impaired. It may be a barrier for everyone. Sighted or blind.
Bob Branco: Because we’re talking about human touch versus non-human touch. Right. And sighted people as well as blind people, I think would benefit from that because everybody’s a human being. We all ask the same questions. We all, to some degree, need the same services, whether it’s about medical needs, whether it’s about Social Security needs, whether it’s about buying something in a store. I mean, now we’ve got self-checkout machines at stores, which I particularly don’t care for. I would rather be serviced by a human being to make sure that the price is right, that I paid the right amount of money. I don’t want to depend on automation to help me you figure out if I spent the right amount of money. What if. What if automation made a mistake and all of a sudden I. I got the shaft and I, I was the recipient of an error. I know somebody would argue with me that human beings make mistakes too. Yes, but human beings have the time to consult and figure it out. And. And maybe they can get help from somebody who would make them realize they made a mistake. How can you realize when automation made a mistake, when you have no human being there to help, unless you have to summon every human being? And I’m sure that’s possible, but it does take a lot more time, effort and work.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What is your view on the QR code thing? You know, when they say point your cell phone at the screen. Well, we can’t do that very easily. So how do you get around that?
Bob Branco: I don’t use a cell phone. I depend on my landline.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: I’ve heard of stories about it, though, and I know that people have learned how to use iPhones and and use the blind. Shell. I’ve heard of the blind shell. I’ve never used it. Yeah, I’ve heard of meta glasses where people can learn what’s around them visually by somebody speaking what the pictures are, right? You know, I’ve heard of all of these things, but I’ve never really wanted to use all of these things. I feel that I can function as a human being with the basic stuff that I grew up with, and I think I’m doing just fine doing it that way.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, so you’re saying that you don’t have a cell phone, you don’t have metal glasses, and you are just fine the way you know you can function? Yeah.
Bob Branco: Yes, I believe that.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Now, I’d love to talk about the Consumer Vision magazine Sure because it says so much about your commitment to access. What inspired you to create a publication for both blind and sighted readers, and why was it so important to you to offer it in accessible formats?
Bob Branco: I think one of the reasons why I decided to publish my own magazine was hearing stories from blind and sighted people about things that are on their minds, whether it would be guide dog issues, whether it be employment issues, transportation issues other aspects of life. And so I decided to compile other people’s stories and put them in a publication.
Bob Branco: That way I could get a readership where we could share these ideas with other people, sort of like a large community, sort of like a large network of people who read and share ideas about what the average person has on his or her mind, whether blind or sighted.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: How old is this magazine? How long have you been, you know, in operation?
Bob Branco: It’s going to be 20 years in November.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Holy cow. And readership. What is your readership like?
Bob Branco: I think approximately 250 people, give or take a few.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. How do you advertise it?
Bob Branco: I have a website which is http://www.magazine.com. In fact, I’ll advertise it right now if that’s okay.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Sir. Go for it.
Bob Branco: Okay. So you go to magazine.com. You will likely find back publications of the magazine so that you can determine the format, figure out the format, what it’s all about. And then there is a section where you can subscribe. And once you subscribe, you will get the publication monthly via email.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Have you tried to increase readership and if so, how so?
Bob Branco: I publicize in the magazine how people can subscribe. Of course, if they are already a reader, they don’t need to know any more than that. So I use word of mouth. I, I do a lot more networking too, or I just let people know how they can subscribe to the publication.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay. Now, many people hear about a magazine and they think only about the finished product. From your perspective, what has it really taken to build and sustain Consumer Vision magazine over time, and what has that journey taught you about serving a community?
Bob Branco: I have an excellent staff of writers. I have an excellent editor. I have an excellent proofreader and formatter.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: And I think that is what really contributes to making consumer vision a quality publication.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: And of course, the more experience that I have working with this team, the more confident I am that this type of a project is worth it. It’s worth all the effort to share ideas with the public about what’s on our minds.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good. Now, you’ve written for your own publication, but you have also written for outlets such as Matilda Ziegler one.
Bob Branco: Yes, I was an op ed, I was a I’m sorry, I was going to say I was an op ed columnist for Matilda Ziegler for about 4 or 5 years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. And you’ve also written for the American Council of the blind. How has writing in those different spaces shaped your voice and your understanding of what readers need?
Bob Branco: First of all, I have to figure out my audience before I decide to write the appropriate article for whatever publication we’re talking about. Now, you mentioned Matilda Ziegler magazine that was exclusively a magazine for the blind.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: So most of the columns that I wrote for Matilda Ziegler had to do with blindness, although I did veer off, I veered off two other topics from time to time, because blind people don’t always have to know about blindness issues. Blind people are people too, just like everybody else. So I want them to read stuff about life in general, not just about blindness issues. In fact, that’s how I feel about consumer vision.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Right. You have also built a very strong presence in audio through in Perspective sports, Round Table, and other programs. What drew you to broadcasting and podcasting as tools for connection, advocacy, and accessibility?
Bob Branco: Let me answer your question by starting with what I want to do. What I was doing back in the 90s. I used to get involved with television. I had programs on cable access television. I had a show called Disabilities Forum, which was on a local channel here in New Bedford, Massachusetts. I was involved from 1994 to about 2000, and I would interview guests relating to the disability community about different issues that disability that disabled individuals face on a regular basis, whether it be medical work related advocacy you know, things like that. We would do that for several years. I also had a sports show on cable access television as well. So when the podcast era evolved, I found it rather easy to create podcasts the way I created the same type of show on television. I got to know more and more people who knew about podcasting, and so that motivated me even more. And one day I said to myself, why don’t I just simply do podcasts? So I learned how to do podcasts. I used Skype in the beginning. And then when Covid hit, Zoom became more popular. So eventually my shows evolved from Skype to Zoom.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: In perspective is a similar show, although I’d like to think that in perspective, it’s not just a show on blindness. I have a lot of guests on in perspective who have nothing to do with the blindness community.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right?
Bob Branco: Because I’d like to think that we can talk about politics, that we can talk about the legal profession, we can talk about sports, we can talk about medicine as well as blindness related topics.
Bob Branco: As a matter of fact, we’ve done 459 episodes of In Perspective and 438 episodes of Sports Roundtable.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, geez. My goodness. Congratulations.
Bob Branco: I started podcasting in 2017.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. So it’s a weekly podcast.
Bob Branco: Yes. For one hour.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Tell me about the Sports Roundup podcast, because I think I’m going to be one of your guests on April the 20th.
Bob Branco: Yes you are. Sports roundtable is a program where about five of us, sometimes six of us, talk about the hot sports topics of the week. We come from all walks of life. We come from all different parts of the country, and we get together for an hour and simply talk about national sports.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So when I appear on your interview on your podcast on April 20th, what am I going to be talking about? What would you like me to talk about?
Bob Branco: Well, when you offer to appear on my program, you pointed out to me that you are a hockey fan and where I’m going to have and where I’m going to have another hockey person on the show. At the same time, the theme for this particular show on April 20th will be about hockey.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Good. And I think a lot of I think more and more women are getting interested in hockey. But for me, I’ve enjoyed hockey for most of my life. I’d love to talk about it. And I’m looking forward to this podcast. Yeah.
Bob Branco: I’ve been following hockey too, for about 58 years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: I have my own favorite team, the Boston Bruins.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I knew you were going to say that. Yes, they were a good team. Are they in the playoffs this year?
Bob Branco: It looks like they’re going to be in the playoffs. Yes. I don’t know how far they’re going to go, but I’m just grateful that they’re in the playoffs for now.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So as the clock starts to wind down, tell me what other ventures are you thinking of getting into?
Bob Branco: Well, I can tell you some of the other ventures that I’m into right now. I run a bowling league for for persons with disabilities. We bowl once a week and I’ve been doing that for about 30 years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: Most of the people in my league have one disability or another. There are only two blind people in the league. Me and another person. Okay. But many of the other bowlers have disabilities. There are some that do not have disabilities because I believe in integrating people with disabilities, with people without disabilities.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? What else are you involved in?
Bob Branco: I have a friends group that meets once a week. We go out for dinner on Saturday nights. It’s a good way for us to fellowship and socialize. Yeah, so we do that pretty much on a weekly basis.
Bob Branco: I run phone chats where mostly blind people get together on a Sunday night, and we just talk about whatever is on our minds. We fellowship and we network and we just share stories. It’s sort of like a support group.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: Then I offer trivia once a week for people who are interested. We get on a chat line and play trivia, and we devote another evening to music where people ask me to play certain songs that they want to hear.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, tell us about that one.
Bob Branco: Well, it’s one hour on a Monday evening from 7 to 8 p.m..
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
Bob Branco: And people come in and I ask them to request their favorite songs. So once they give me their request, I play it for them.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So you have a a large database of songs.
Bob Branco: Yes I do. Through Amazon Music on my Alexa device.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you do use some sort of technology, you know, like Alexa. Tell me, tell me, tell us about how you use Alexa.
Bob Branco: I basically use it to play music, although if I have any questions or if I want her to look up a phone number, let’s say I ask her. Well, once in a while, if I feel light hearted, I ask her to tell me a joke and she’ll tell me a joke.
Bob Branco: There are a lot of things that you can do with Alexa, and I try to take advantage of as many of those factors as I possibly can.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So basically, Bob, your technology suite consists of Alexa plus your computer and your Braille devices, right?
Bob Branco: That is correct.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And you feel very comfortable in this world.
Bob Branco: I do. I must also say that I am married. I’ve been married for six and a half years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yep.
Bob Branco: To a very, very good woman. Okay. And we get along very well. We like sports. I like to listen to sports. She likes to listen to the Bruins. Also, she watches almost as many Bruins games as humanly possible. I love my Red Sox. I love my Boston Celtics. So we make time to listen to sports and follow the teams.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. All right. You got any parting words for our listeners with regard to. What do you think? A person can do? It’s a fast moving world. It’s a fast paced world. How can one relax without getting stressed out by technology? You seem to have survived very, very well without getting involved with cell phones and all the other stuff. Tell us. Give us some hints.
Bob Branco: I would say manage your time as best as possible. Make sure that you manage your time appropriately enough, where you don’t have to be put in the position to be stressed out. People need to realize when they are overwhelmed and when they feel they’re overwhelmed, that’s when they should draw the line and do things in moderation. That’s how I feel.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I certainly admire the fact that you have been able to get along without a cell phone. I do. I admire you for that, thank you. No, no, I do, and I think, you know, the way you’ve structured your world, I think it’s great. It’s a certainly a different side of looking at things, you know, a different way of looking at things. It’s refreshing. You know, you take us back to the old days, but then again, you still on the edge of the new day, right?
Bob Branco: Yes. And like I said, I use my computer, so it’s not like I don’t associate with technology. I do, and the technology that I use is fabulous. It’s wonderful. It’s convenient.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Good.
Bob Branco: Well, Bob, one more closing thought is sure. I remember now about the orientation and mobility. Yeah. I had to wait till the parallel traffic started before I.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Well that’s true. Yeah, yeah. Do you visit the Brooklyn school at all?
Bob Branco: The last time I visited Perkins was, I believe in 2018. They had an alumni association meeting that I went to.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Screen Reader: New location from outlook left.
Bob Branco: That was the last time I visited the school.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This has been certainly a very different type of interview. I’ve really, really enjoyed this. Listening to someone who can survive in this modern world by picking and choosing which technology you choose to, you know, be part of your life. I, I really have enjoyed this because, you know, most people, I have to have my cell phone. I must be on WhatsApp. I must be on FaceTime. You’re not right.
Bob Branco: I use Facebook.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
Bob Branco: But I’m not on there constantly. But I use it from time to time.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, but you pick and choose which pieces of technology, right?
Bob Branco: Yes, I do right.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You don’t go saying, well, I must have my cell phone with me day and night. I must be on WhatsApp today and tonight. No.
Bob Branco: No, I don’t do that.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. I really admire it.
Bob Branco: Thank you.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So, Bob, it has been a pleasure. I I’m looking forward to the sports table with you guys on the 20th.
Bob Branco: Well, we’re looking forward to having you on with us, Donna. I will spread the word.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, and you and I are working on certain other projects, and we will be in touch.
Bob Branco: I’m sure we will. And I want to thank you for the opportunity for having me on your podcast.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It’s my pleasure. Thank you very, very much.
Bob Branco: You’re welcome.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. You take care now.
Bob Branco: You too. Donna.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Bye bye. Bye bye.
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at DonnaJodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.
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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #82: Interview with Bob Branco, Author, Writer and Publisher
🎙️ Listen to this Podcast.
In this wide-ranging episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan sits down with longtime advocate, author, and broadcaster Bob Branco for a wide-ranging conversation about growing up blind, building a life of creative independence, and choosing one’s relationship with technology on one’s own terms. Bob traces his path from a sight-saving class in New Bedford, Massachusetts to eight years at the Perkins School for the Blind, where he picked up the orientation and mobility skills, Braille fluency, and quiet confidence that still anchor his daily life, he notes he has been using the same Perkins Brailler for sixty-one years. He talks about what drove him to write My Home Away from Home and As I See It From a Blind Man’s Perspective, the nearly twenty-year run of his Consumer Vision magazine, his columns for Matilda Ziegler and the American Council of the Blind, and the hundreds of episodes he has produced of In Perspective and Sports Roundtable since 2017.
The second half of the conversation turns to a quietly radical position: Bob has built a full life, writing, publishing, broadcasting, running a disability bowling league for three decades, hosting weekly phone chats, trivia nights, and music request hours, without ever owning a cell phone. He relies on a landline, a computer, his Brailler, and an Alexa device, and he pushes back gently but firmly on a world that treats constant connectivity, QR codes, self-checkouts, and press-one-for-this automation as progress. Donna and Bob find shared ground around the erosion of human touch in customer service, the enduring importance of Braille, and Bob’s parting advice to manage time carefully, recognize when you are overwhelmed, and do things in moderation. The two close by looking ahead to April 20, when Donna will join Bob and his crew on Sports Roundtable to talk hockey.
TRANSCRIPT
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Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA, invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I’m Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and a stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate and accessibility consultant and author, Lifelong barrier buster, who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to cited ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty. S Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I’m not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio, you’ll find me teaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you now to think of this show as your shared workbench, where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today’s conversation, let me shine a quick spotlight on today’s guest, a change maker whose work is as every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to change. Bob Branco I am pleased, I am delighted. I am honored to have you on my podcast. Welcome.
Bob Branco: Well, it’s it’s a thank you, Donna. It’s a pleasure to be on this program.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good. So, Bob, I don’t know when was when was it that we first met? Probably a few years ago. Right.
Bob Branco: I believe it was about 2 or 3 years ago.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: I first heard about you.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And you approached me. I have been on your podcast a few times. Now it’s time for me to have you on my podcast. And I’ve been following you admiring the guests that you’ve had on your podcast. So let’s start at the beginning, Bob. I love to begin at the beginning for listeners who are just getting to know you, how would you describe your early life in New Bedford and the path that has led you to Perkins School for the blind?
Bob Branco: I was born and raised in New Bedford, Massachusetts.
Bob Branco: At one time in my life I had sight. I was always legally blind. But when I was younger, I was able to see.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: Be that as it may, I spent the first several years of my schooling in a sight saving class. Now, what that means is I was in a room with several other children who had vision problems. There weren’t that many of us in the class, so the teacher gave us a lot more attention than she normally would have had we been a normal class size.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: After grade four, it was determined that I should go to Perkins School for the blind.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, okay.
Bob Branco: I believe the state insisted that I go because I remember my parents were upset at the time. I don’t believe it was my parents who thought of the idea. I think the state came to them and said, there’s not much more we can do for Bob in New Bedford, so he needs to go to a private school for the blind and where Perkins is located in Massachusetts. I suppose that was a fair compromise. I would get to go home on weekends and be with my family then, and live at the school and learn what I needed to learn until I graduated from Perkins.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Wow. So as someone who knows how deeply our early experiences shape us, I’d love to ask this question. When you look back on your years at Perkins, what moments most helped to form your confidence, your identity, and your sense of what was possible as a blind person?
Bob Branco: I think the best way for me to answer that question is to simply say, as I learned new things and realized that I could do them well, it helped me gain more confidence in myself. Here’s a good example. Orientation and mobility. Right? Not only did I learn how to use a cane at Perkins, but I learned how to cross streets. I learned how to tell when the parallel traffic was coming. When the perpendicular traffic was coming at a main street. I learned how to use the audible traffic signals because in Watertown, Massachusetts, there were audible traffic signals that you used to cross the busy streets.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right?
Bob Branco: But but as I continued to learn mobility, I recognized that the techniques I learned really had nothing to do with whether there was an audible signal, because there would not always be an audible traffic signal whenever I crossed the street. Okay. So what I learned was to not cross the street unless the parallel traffic started, because when the parallel. I’m sorry. When the parallel traffic stopped.
Advertisement: Yeah.
Bob Branco: Or. Okay, I’m trying to think what it was. Anyway, I learned the technique back in the day, so I learned when to cross and when not to cross, even without an audible traffic signal.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay. Any experiences that stick out in your mind during that time of your life that you know, were you scared? Were you you said I, I know I can cross the street. Was there any moment that stuck out in your mind during that time?
Bob Branco: Not that I can think of at the moment, I’m sure. Like with anything else, some things that we learn were not afraid of. While other things that we learn we can be afraid of to a point.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Are you one of those who gets nervous quickly? Or you say I’m, I’m going to catch this and I’m going to deal with it.
Bob Branco: I think it depends on the circumstance. If there are things that I know I can handle, I’m able to pass the test, so to speak, without being nervous about it. There are some things that I learned at school that I was afraid. As a matter of fact, one of them was swimming. I was I was very fearful of being in the water, especially the deep end.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Tell us why.
Bob Branco: In a sense, I was petrified.
Bob Branco: But as I learned more and more about the techniques involved with swimming, I was a little bit more confident in myself, despite my fears.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Is it because you didn’t have vision or is it because it was you, Bob? The person.
Bob Branco: It was me, Bob the person. It had nothing to do with what little vision I had at the time.
Bob Branco: I suppose you could get up to maybe perhaps being inexperienced or maybe a fear of the unknown, so to speak.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. So you’re saying it was mainly you?
Bob Branco: Yes.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: Exactly.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. I’m especially interested in the foundations of independence. How important were Braille, adaptive skills and the discipline of learning to do things for yourself in shaping everything that came later in your life and career?
Bob Branco: Very, very important. Everything was significant at the time. Obviously, the fact that I knew Braille helped me to be independent when I read. When I read books.
Bob Branco: Because back then, Braille was one of the more primary resources for a blind person. Today, there are many other alternatives. Obviously, because of all the adaptive technology that’s out there. When I was at Perkins, there wasn’t as much adaptive technology as there is today. There were a couple of things, but it wasn’t anywhere near what it is now.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Do you think that Braille is still very important in your life, and more so should we still be promoting Braille?
Bob Branco: Braille is just as important in my life today as it was back then. And I wish it was just as important for everybody else with a vision impairment. Some people don’t use it as much as I do. There might even be some blind people who don’t use it at all. And as I said, you’ve got all this adaptive technology now, speech devices and talking devices and all the other things that Braille may not be as necessary for some people as it is for others.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you’re saying it is still very necessary for you?
Bob Branco: I’d like to think so, yes, I depend on it as much today as I did back then.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Give us some examples of how you use Braille.
Bob Branco: I use Braille to take notes for myself to help me remember things. Or if I happen to correspond with somebody who’s blind, I would like to write them a Braille letter, particularly if they don’t have email, because I do a lot of emailing as it is.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: But if I wanted to write a letter or mail a letter out to somebody, I have no problem writing it in Braille because that’s what I’m used to doing.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: In fact, I learned Braille before I went to Perkins. I learned Braille in second grade during my time at the sight saving class.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay.
Bob Branco: I already knew Braille when I arrived at Perkins.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, so what are the mechanisms you use for when when you interact with Braille, do you use a Perkins Brailler? Do you use a pocket slate? What do you use?
Bob Branco: I learned the Perkins Brailler and I also learned the slate stylus. I found that the slate and stylus were very, very tricky for me because you had to do things backwards. Right, right. Those of you who know the slate and stylus might know what I’m talking about when I say that.
Bob Branco: So I gradually stopped using the slate and stylus. If I had to use it today, I could. But I find that a lot slower and a little more inconvenient. So yes, I use the Perkins Brailler. Even today I’ve been using the Perkins Brailler now for 61 years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. And you, you know, you use Braille a lot. Give us some examples as to other examples as to how you use Braille in addition to writing and stuff like that. Do you have a Braille display?
Bob Branco: I do not use a Braille display. Okay. I’ve heard about them. I know people who use them. I might have used them a few times myself just to try them out. But the Braille displays are not items that I really gotten myself attached to. Not really.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you still read books in Braille?
Bob Branco: Yes I do. And a lot of bills and sports schedules and things that I ask for, even things that I don’t ask for. I get in the mail and they’re in Braille. There are accessible features where blind people can access their phone bills their baseball schedules, their basketball schedules. There are organizations that provide that material in accessible format for blind people who are interested in getting them.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What about Braille crossword puzzles? Do you know? Do you know anything about that, or do you use them?
Bob Branco: I think I used Braille crossword puzzles maybe way back in the day. I seem to recall doing it once or twice.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: I have used a Braille Scrabble game. I played Braille Scrabble on several occasions.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: Braille bingo.
Bob Branco: I have a checkerboard that blind people use. It’s not necessarily in Braille, but it’s designed for blind people and has the necessary features for a blind person to navigate checkers. So I use that a lot, too.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you still play checkers? Stuff like that.
Bob Branco: I do.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Dominoes.
Bob Branco: I have played dominoes occasionally. Yes, I don’t play them today, but I have played them in the past.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. All right. So you later wrote a book called My Home Away from Home about your time at Perkins?
Bob Branco: That’s correct.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What moved you to tell that story, and what did you most want blind and sighted readers to understand about growing up, learning, and finding your place in the world?
Bob Branco: What drove me to write the book about Perkins was the fact that I loved talking to people about my time at Perkins. I love sharing memories of my time at Perkins. So one day I said, you know what? Maybe I should put all of this down on paper. So I did.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. And how long were you at Perkins?
Bob Branco: I was at Perkins for eight years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: And in answer to your second question. I was hoping that my story would somehow relate well to other blind people who may or may not have had my experiences.
Bob Branco: Maybe it was a form of education in a way, to teach them how I could handle a school for the blind, in case some of the blind people who read my book or knew about my book would not necessarily know what it’s like.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You still think that Perkins is an important part for anyone who has the opportunity to go there?
Bob Branco: Perkins has changed, Donna. It’s not the same school as it was when I left. It has evolved into a different kind of an environment. It now services Multi-handicapped kids. Many people with the desire to go to college. Now, who are blind are now being mainstreamed in public schools thanks to legislation that allowed that to happen back in the day.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So it has undergone a lot of changes since you were there.
Bob Branco: Yes it has.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So your writing has such an honest and direct quality to it. What did you when did you first realize that your personal experiences with blindness could become a form of public education and advocacy?
Bob Branco: That’s hard to say, because I’d like to think that I’ve been an advocate for a long, long time. I was advocating for the rights of persons with disabilities when I was in college back in the early 80s.
Bob Branco: So I think I was an advocate for at least 40 years. However, there was a time when I decided to write just to share my experiences with the public. Now there’s another book that I wrote in relation to what you’re talking about called as I See It From A Blind Man’s Perspective.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: Which was a book about how I perceive blindness and what it meant to me personally.
Bob Branco: But in the book, there was some education about blindness in general and about how it’s dealt with by most of us, not just about me.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So do you think that advocacy is a combination of writing and speaking and doing other things, or is it just mainly one aspect?
Bob Branco: Oh, I think you’re right. I think advocacy involves communication.
Bob Branco: Networking, sticking up for oneself or sticking up for, you know, colleagues or fellow blind people or, or whoever you’re advocating for. I think it’s a combination of a lot of things.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay. So in books like as I see it and the Waiting Things Up series, you’ve written about blindness, technology, employment, bureaucracy, and everything else about life. As you look across the years, which barriers have changed the most and which ones have.
Screen Reader: Left buried.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Have been far too stubborn?
Bob Branco: Oh, okay. That’s a broad question. I would say I would say that society has progressed in many areas, while in other areas I question it. Now I can get more specific if you would like, but that would be the summary of of my answer to that question.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Get more specific. Let’s hear from you.
Bob Branco: Okay. Technology is fine, but sometimes I think it’s being taken for granted.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: Because take the field of customer service, for example.
Bob Branco: I want to talk to human beings on the phone. When I ask for service. I don’t want to be dealing with constant automation all the time. I would rather speak with people who sympathize and empathize and want to help other people. I know that I would like to be that kind of a person helping other people. I do it all the time, right? But to to reach automation and press one for this and press two for that.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
Bob Branco: Press three if you have to go to the bathroom. I mean, I’m exaggerating, but you get what I’m saying. Yep. That is so inhumane. I understand that it’s fascinating. I love technology myself. I just don’t feel that I want to take it for granted. I mean, technology is very convenient for me. Without it, I might not have been able to write all the books that I’ve written. Right, right. But a good example of what you’re asking me about would be customer service.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: How would you change that, though?
Bob Branco: I don’t know if I could change it. I could come up with ideas on how it could be changed.
Bob Branco: I think there should be an incentive for more and more people to continue working at the phones. Without people like me and you, depending on automation to get the answers that we need.
Bob Branco: I’m not really sure as to why the human component of customer services is gradually being placed in the background. I suppose technology has a lot to do with it because, as I said, people love technology. People want to use it as much as possible, so they incorporate it in their workplaces as much as possible.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Would you say then that technology has taken away the human touch in many ways, and how has this affected blind and visually impaired people?
Bob Branco: In some ways, technology has replaced the human touch. I’m not saying that there is no human touch. There certainly is. I appreciate the fact that there still is. But if you’re talking about how technology has replaced it, I think to some degree, not always, but to some degree it has replaced what should be constant human touch.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Is that a barrier for blind and visually impaired people, do you think?
Bob Branco: I don’t know if it’s a barrier for just the blind and visually impaired. It may be a barrier for everyone. Sighted or blind.
Bob Branco: Because we’re talking about human touch versus non-human touch. Right. And sighted people as well as blind people, I think would benefit from that because everybody’s a human being. We all ask the same questions. We all, to some degree, need the same services, whether it’s about medical needs, whether it’s about Social Security needs, whether it’s about buying something in a store. I mean, now we’ve got self-checkout machines at stores, which I particularly don’t care for. I would rather be serviced by a human being to make sure that the price is right, that I paid the right amount of money. I don’t want to depend on automation to help me you figure out if I spent the right amount of money. What if. What if automation made a mistake and all of a sudden I. I got the shaft and I, I was the recipient of an error. I know somebody would argue with me that human beings make mistakes too. Yes, but human beings have the time to consult and figure it out. And. And maybe they can get help from somebody who would make them realize they made a mistake. How can you realize when automation made a mistake, when you have no human being there to help, unless you have to summon every human being? And I’m sure that’s possible, but it does take a lot more time, effort and work.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What is your view on the QR code thing? You know, when they say point your cell phone at the screen. Well, we can’t do that very easily. So how do you get around that?
Bob Branco: I don’t use a cell phone. I depend on my landline.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: I’ve heard of stories about it, though, and I know that people have learned how to use iPhones and and use the blind. Shell. I’ve heard of the blind shell. I’ve never used it. Yeah, I’ve heard of meta glasses where people can learn what’s around them visually by somebody speaking what the pictures are, right? You know, I’ve heard of all of these things, but I’ve never really wanted to use all of these things. I feel that I can function as a human being with the basic stuff that I grew up with, and I think I’m doing just fine doing it that way.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, so you’re saying that you don’t have a cell phone, you don’t have metal glasses, and you are just fine the way you know you can function? Yeah.
Bob Branco: Yes, I believe that.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Now, I’d love to talk about the Consumer Vision magazine Sure because it says so much about your commitment to access. What inspired you to create a publication for both blind and sighted readers, and why was it so important to you to offer it in accessible formats?
Bob Branco: I think one of the reasons why I decided to publish my own magazine was hearing stories from blind and sighted people about things that are on their minds, whether it would be guide dog issues, whether it be employment issues, transportation issues other aspects of life. And so I decided to compile other people’s stories and put them in a publication.
Bob Branco: That way I could get a readership where we could share these ideas with other people, sort of like a large community, sort of like a large network of people who read and share ideas about what the average person has on his or her mind, whether blind or sighted.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: How old is this magazine? How long have you been, you know, in operation?
Bob Branco: It’s going to be 20 years in November.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Holy cow. And readership. What is your readership like?
Bob Branco: I think approximately 250 people, give or take a few.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. How do you advertise it?
Bob Branco: I have a website which is http://www.magazine.com. In fact, I’ll advertise it right now if that’s okay.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Sir. Go for it.
Bob Branco: Okay. So you go to magazine.com. You will likely find back publications of the magazine so that you can determine the format, figure out the format, what it’s all about. And then there is a section where you can subscribe. And once you subscribe, you will get the publication monthly via email.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Have you tried to increase readership and if so, how so?
Bob Branco: I publicize in the magazine how people can subscribe. Of course, if they are already a reader, they don’t need to know any more than that. So I use word of mouth. I, I do a lot more networking too, or I just let people know how they can subscribe to the publication.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay. Now, many people hear about a magazine and they think only about the finished product. From your perspective, what has it really taken to build and sustain Consumer Vision magazine over time, and what has that journey taught you about serving a community?
Bob Branco: I have an excellent staff of writers. I have an excellent editor. I have an excellent proofreader and formatter.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: And I think that is what really contributes to making consumer vision a quality publication.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: And of course, the more experience that I have working with this team, the more confident I am that this type of a project is worth it. It’s worth all the effort to share ideas with the public about what’s on our minds.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good. Now, you’ve written for your own publication, but you have also written for outlets such as Matilda Ziegler one.
Bob Branco: Yes, I was an op ed, I was a I’m sorry, I was going to say I was an op ed columnist for Matilda Ziegler for about 4 or 5 years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. And you’ve also written for the American Council of the blind. How has writing in those different spaces shaped your voice and your understanding of what readers need?
Bob Branco: First of all, I have to figure out my audience before I decide to write the appropriate article for whatever publication we’re talking about. Now, you mentioned Matilda Ziegler magazine that was exclusively a magazine for the blind.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: So most of the columns that I wrote for Matilda Ziegler had to do with blindness, although I did veer off, I veered off two other topics from time to time, because blind people don’t always have to know about blindness issues. Blind people are people too, just like everybody else. So I want them to read stuff about life in general, not just about blindness issues. In fact, that’s how I feel about consumer vision.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Right. You have also built a very strong presence in audio through in Perspective sports, Round Table, and other programs. What drew you to broadcasting and podcasting as tools for connection, advocacy, and accessibility?
Bob Branco: Let me answer your question by starting with what I want to do. What I was doing back in the 90s. I used to get involved with television. I had programs on cable access television. I had a show called Disabilities Forum, which was on a local channel here in New Bedford, Massachusetts. I was involved from 1994 to about 2000, and I would interview guests relating to the disability community about different issues that disability that disabled individuals face on a regular basis, whether it be medical work related advocacy you know, things like that. We would do that for several years. I also had a sports show on cable access television as well. So when the podcast era evolved, I found it rather easy to create podcasts the way I created the same type of show on television. I got to know more and more people who knew about podcasting, and so that motivated me even more. And one day I said to myself, why don’t I just simply do podcasts? So I learned how to do podcasts. I used Skype in the beginning. And then when Covid hit, Zoom became more popular. So eventually my shows evolved from Skype to Zoom.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: In perspective is a similar show, although I’d like to think that in perspective, it’s not just a show on blindness. I have a lot of guests on in perspective who have nothing to do with the blindness community.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right?
Bob Branco: Because I’d like to think that we can talk about politics, that we can talk about the legal profession, we can talk about sports, we can talk about medicine as well as blindness related topics.
Bob Branco: As a matter of fact, we’ve done 459 episodes of In Perspective and 438 episodes of Sports Roundtable.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, geez. My goodness. Congratulations.
Bob Branco: I started podcasting in 2017.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. So it’s a weekly podcast.
Bob Branco: Yes. For one hour.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Tell me about the Sports Roundup podcast, because I think I’m going to be one of your guests on April the 20th.
Bob Branco: Yes you are. Sports roundtable is a program where about five of us, sometimes six of us, talk about the hot sports topics of the week. We come from all walks of life. We come from all different parts of the country, and we get together for an hour and simply talk about national sports.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So when I appear on your interview on your podcast on April 20th, what am I going to be talking about? What would you like me to talk about?
Bob Branco: Well, when you offer to appear on my program, you pointed out to me that you are a hockey fan and where I’m going to have and where I’m going to have another hockey person on the show. At the same time, the theme for this particular show on April 20th will be about hockey.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Good. And I think a lot of I think more and more women are getting interested in hockey. But for me, I’ve enjoyed hockey for most of my life. I’d love to talk about it. And I’m looking forward to this podcast. Yeah.
Bob Branco: I’ve been following hockey too, for about 58 years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Bob Branco: I have my own favorite team, the Boston Bruins.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I knew you were going to say that. Yes, they were a good team. Are they in the playoffs this year?
Bob Branco: It looks like they’re going to be in the playoffs. Yes. I don’t know how far they’re going to go, but I’m just grateful that they’re in the playoffs for now.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So as the clock starts to wind down, tell me what other ventures are you thinking of getting into?
Bob Branco: Well, I can tell you some of the other ventures that I’m into right now. I run a bowling league for for persons with disabilities. We bowl once a week and I’ve been doing that for about 30 years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: Most of the people in my league have one disability or another. There are only two blind people in the league. Me and another person. Okay. But many of the other bowlers have disabilities. There are some that do not have disabilities because I believe in integrating people with disabilities, with people without disabilities.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? What else are you involved in?
Bob Branco: I have a friends group that meets once a week. We go out for dinner on Saturday nights. It’s a good way for us to fellowship and socialize. Yeah, so we do that pretty much on a weekly basis.
Bob Branco: I run phone chats where mostly blind people get together on a Sunday night, and we just talk about whatever is on our minds. We fellowship and we network and we just share stories. It’s sort of like a support group.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
Bob Branco: Then I offer trivia once a week for people who are interested. We get on a chat line and play trivia, and we devote another evening to music where people ask me to play certain songs that they want to hear.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, tell us about that one.
Bob Branco: Well, it’s one hour on a Monday evening from 7 to 8 p.m..
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
Bob Branco: And people come in and I ask them to request their favorite songs. So once they give me their request, I play it for them.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. So you have a a large database of songs.
Bob Branco: Yes I do. Through Amazon Music on my Alexa device.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you do use some sort of technology, you know, like Alexa. Tell me, tell me, tell us about how you use Alexa.
Bob Branco: I basically use it to play music, although if I have any questions or if I want her to look up a phone number, let’s say I ask her. Well, once in a while, if I feel light hearted, I ask her to tell me a joke and she’ll tell me a joke.
Bob Branco: There are a lot of things that you can do with Alexa, and I try to take advantage of as many of those factors as I possibly can.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So basically, Bob, your technology suite consists of Alexa plus your computer and your Braille devices, right?
Bob Branco: That is correct.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And you feel very comfortable in this world.
Bob Branco: I do. I must also say that I am married. I’ve been married for six and a half years.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yep.
Bob Branco: To a very, very good woman. Okay. And we get along very well. We like sports. I like to listen to sports. She likes to listen to the Bruins. Also, she watches almost as many Bruins games as humanly possible. I love my Red Sox. I love my Boston Celtics. So we make time to listen to sports and follow the teams.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. All right. You got any parting words for our listeners with regard to. What do you think? A person can do? It’s a fast moving world. It’s a fast paced world. How can one relax without getting stressed out by technology? You seem to have survived very, very well without getting involved with cell phones and all the other stuff. Tell us. Give us some hints.
Bob Branco: I would say manage your time as best as possible. Make sure that you manage your time appropriately enough, where you don’t have to be put in the position to be stressed out. People need to realize when they are overwhelmed and when they feel they’re overwhelmed, that’s when they should draw the line and do things in moderation. That’s how I feel.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I certainly admire the fact that you have been able to get along without a cell phone. I do. I admire you for that, thank you. No, no, I do, and I think, you know, the way you’ve structured your world, I think it’s great. It’s a certainly a different side of looking at things, you know, a different way of looking at things. It’s refreshing. You know, you take us back to the old days, but then again, you still on the edge of the new day, right?
Bob Branco: Yes. And like I said, I use my computer, so it’s not like I don’t associate with technology. I do, and the technology that I use is fabulous. It’s wonderful. It’s convenient.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Good.
Bob Branco: Well, Bob, one more closing thought is sure. I remember now about the orientation and mobility. Yeah. I had to wait till the parallel traffic started before I.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Well that’s true. Yeah, yeah. Do you visit the Brooklyn school at all?
Bob Branco: The last time I visited Perkins was, I believe in 2018. They had an alumni association meeting that I went to.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
Screen Reader: New location from outlook left.
Bob Branco: That was the last time I visited the school.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This has been certainly a very different type of interview. I’ve really, really enjoyed this. Listening to someone who can survive in this modern world by picking and choosing which technology you choose to, you know, be part of your life. I, I really have enjoyed this because, you know, most people, I have to have my cell phone. I must be on WhatsApp. I must be on FaceTime. You’re not right.
Bob Branco: I use Facebook.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
Bob Branco: But I’m not on there constantly. But I use it from time to time.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, but you pick and choose which pieces of technology, right?
Bob Branco: Yes, I do right.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You don’t go saying, well, I must have my cell phone with me day and night. I must be on WhatsApp today and tonight. No.
Bob Branco: No, I don’t do that.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. I really admire it.
Bob Branco: Thank you.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So, Bob, it has been a pleasure. I I’m looking forward to the sports table with you guys on the 20th.
Bob Branco: Well, we’re looking forward to having you on with us, Donna. I will spread the word.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, and you and I are working on certain other projects, and we will be in touch.
Bob Branco: I’m sure we will. And I want to thank you for the opportunity for having me on your podcast.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It’s my pleasure. Thank you very, very much.
Bob Branco: You’re welcome.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. You take care now.
Bob Branco: You too. Donna.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Bye bye. Bye bye.
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at DonnaJodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.
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