Remarkable World Commentary Episode #104: Ask Advocate Donna

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Here Donna Jodhan steps into what she calls her Ask Advocate Donna shoes for her second solo episode of August, presenting stories of advocacy and inviting listeners to send in their own. She opens with a quote she came across and likes: speak in such a way that others love to listen to you, and listen in such a way that others love to speak to you. Then she runs her favourite word game, offering two pairs of words that advocates meet constantly. Action or conversation: action means getting involved, getting your hands dirty and your feet wet, the hardcore end of advocacy, while conversation means sitting down to listen and discuss, which is more passive. Intention or execution is the opposite pairing: intention is being ready and willing to get something done, execution is having actually done it. Donna is careful to say there is nothing wrong with either side of either pair, and that it depends on the advocate and where they want to go.

She then works through three stories sent in by listeners, applying the same frame to each one: what is advocacy here, who gets involved, why is it necessary, how do you get involved, and when. A parent, Isabel, is handed a single plate at a fundraising dinner for a dance troupe and told to share it with her daughter Dania, until the two raise their voices in unison, politely and effectively, and the host backs off and provides a second plate. A caregiver asks a patient’s daughter, who is vision impaired, to pay extra for the meals she is served, and Donna lays out the options for how the daughter might respond, from asking exactly what she is being charged for to simply saying it is out of the question. And a senior named Harry, standing first in line, is waved to the back by a dismissive ticket agent with no explanation, which leaves Donna asking what she would do in his place. She wants listeners’ feedback on these, and asks them to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com.

TRANSCRIPT

Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA invites you to listen to her bi-weekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access, technology, and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Greetings, everybody. And I’m Donna J. Jodhan, your host for the Remarkable World Commentary podcast, and this is my second solo podcast for the month of August. This is where I get into my Ask Advocate Donna shoes, and I present you with stories of advocacy and invite you to send your stories to me and let me know what is going on with you. Send your stories to me at donnajodhan@gmail.com.

Donna Jodhan: All right, so it’s a nice month so far. And let’s get started here. Okay, let’s get started with this, with a wonderful quote of mine that I somehow managed to get from a blog or somewhere. But I really like this quote. Here we go. “Speak in such a way that others love to listen to you, and listen in such a way that others love to speak to you.” I find this quote to be very deep in meaning, and if we follow this, it’s really going to help us on our way. Okay.

Donna Jodhan: I want to start off with my favorite word game. It has to do with, a lot of times advocates are faced with different situations, different circumstances. And I’ve tried to find words that advocates often use in their daily jobs, in their daily lives and everything like that.

Donna Jodhan: And the first pair of words that I want to present to you for your thought are these: action or conversation? When does an advocate engage in an action versus when they engage in a conversation? It’s a very difficult decision to make.

Donna Jodhan: Action often involves getting involved in certain things, getting your hands dirty, getting your feet wet, right? It’s hardcore advocacy. Whereas in the case of conversation, you sit down, you listen, you discuss. It’s more passive, if you want to put it that way. Action is active. Conversation is passive. Nothing wrong with either of these two situations. Action, conversation. It all depends on you, the advocate, and where you want to go with this. So action is active. Conversation is passive.

Donna Jodhan: All right. Okay. Here is the next pair of words: intention or execution. And in this case, intention is more, again, more passive. Execution is more active. So it’s the opposite from the above. Intention or execution. Intention is when you are really ready and willing to put your shingles out there to get something done. You intend to do it, but are you going to do it? Execution is when you’ve done it.

Donna Jodhan: All right? So intention is passive. Execution is active. Okay? Intention versus execution. Nothing wrong with either of these two. You may have an intention, but are you going to act on your intention? Execution is when you can say you have done it.

Donna Jodhan: All right. So there you go for my two word game. Terms that I’d like you to think of. Most advocates are often faced with these two. Okay. Action or conversation, or intention or execution. All right.

Donna Jodhan: All right. So we’re going to move on. Here’s the first story that I received from someone. The host wanted the parent to share their plate of food with their disabled child. I don’t like the word using disabled, but they wanted to. The host wanted the parent to share their plate of food with their child who had a disability. Okay. Lordy. This is not an easy thing in many ways.

Donna Jodhan: So Isabel went to a fundraising dinner for her grandchildren’s efforts to raise funds for their dance— she went to a fundraising dinner to raise funds for a dance troupe. When she got to the buffet table and the buffet people— but the food table, the host handed her a plate. And when she said to the host, well, my child needs a plate of food as well, the host told her, no, you guys have to share the food.

Donna Jodhan: At which stage, Isabel’s daughter Dania stepped up to the plate, in so many terms, or just spoke up and said, no, I need my own plate of food. At first the host refused, and when Isabel and Dania started to raise their voices in unison to say, listen, we are two individuals, we require two plates, the host backed off and grudgingly gave a plate of food to Dania.

Donna Jodhan: What did Isabel and Dania do? Well, Isabel and Dania raised their voices in unison, politely and effectively. And fortunately, there were those around them who saw what was going on. Nobody said anything, but the host got the message and gave two plates of food to two individuals.

Donna Jodhan: Okay, so what is the picture here? All right. Who gets involved? Or should I say, what is advocacy all about? In this case, advocacy is when something is not right in the view of Isabel the parent and Dania the child. Right. It’s not right in their point of view, because the host only wanted to give a plate of food to Isabel so that she would share it with Dania. And advocacy is when they speak up, or when they spoke up. And who gets involved in advocacy? Isabel and Dania.

Donna Jodhan: Okay. Why is it necessary? It’s necessary because of— I wouldn’t say it’s a mishap. I would say that it is an inconsideration or just a glitch on the part of the host. Why? She only wanted to give one plate of food to Isabel and Dania. We would never know, because she simply yielded when these two raise their voices and said, no, we need two plates, not just one plate.

Donna Jodhan: Okay. How do you get involved in advocacy in this case? By raising your voices politely and appropriately, and bringing to the notice of the host that this is not right. When to get involved in advocacy? As I said, as above, you get involved when something in your view is not right.

Donna Jodhan: All right, let’s go to the second story now. All right. The caregiver wants to charge the patient’s daughter more money for serving her her meals. Now, this story is one where the patient is the mom, and the daughter is visiting the mom, and the caregiver is— when she serves food to the patient, her patient, she also gives an extra plate to the patient’s daughter, who is vision impaired.

Donna Jodhan: All right. What is going on here? We have to figure out, why does the caregiver think or believe that the patient’s daughter should be paying for being served a plate of food? Not sure. What advice would you give to the patient’s daughter? Because the patient’s daughter is the one that the caregiver approached and told the daughter that she had to pay more money, and daughter doesn’t really know why she’s being asked to pay more money. She didn’t ask the caregiver because she was taken by surprise.

Donna Jodhan: What advice would you give to the patient’s daughter? Should she ask the caregiver what is she being paid for? Or should she take the bull by the horn and say to the caregiver, no, at this point in time, I can’t afford to give you any more money because you’re already being paid a lot of money to look after my mum. And if I were to pay you more money, then I would have to pay the other caregivers more money and I can’t afford it.

Donna Jodhan: Or should the patient’s daughter simply say, at this time, this is out of the question, instead of belaboring the discussion? What would be your advice?

Donna Jodhan: Okay. What is advocacy? Advocacy is, in this case, the patient’s daughter asking questions or making a decision not to adhere to the caregiver’s request. It’s a very unclear question on the part of the caregiver. So does it need to be thrashed out or ignored? In this case, who gets involved in advocacy is the patient’s daughter.

Donna Jodhan: Why is it necessary? It is necessary for clarification and for the patient standing up for what she thinks is right. Not necessarily what she thinks is right, but standing up for something that she doesn’t believe or she doesn’t feel that it is right or comfortable. And how does one get involved in advocacy in this case? Well, it’s a patient being active, not passive, being active. And well, the patient’s daughter gets involved in advocacy when the caregiver makes this request.

Donna Jodhan: Okay. Let’s go on to the third story. But I would be interested to get your feedback on this. All right. And I’ll tell you at the end how you can send me your feedback.

Donna Jodhan: Third story. A senior told to go to the back of the line in order to purchase their ticket. Now, the senior here is wondering, and the senior’s name is Harry. Why is he being asked to go to the back of the line in order to purchase a ticket? Is it because he is a senior, or what is it? It is not really clear. Harry is just being told, go to the back of the line.

Donna Jodhan: When Harry was at the front of the line, Harry is being told, go to the back of the line. Harry starts to query the ticket agent, and the ticket agent sort of gives him a very dismissive action with his hands, like, I’m telling you, go to the back of the line, go! Harry is not satisfied with this, and he wants to know why he is first in line but being told to go to the back of the line. Does Harry have the right to query the ticket agent?

Donna Jodhan: What do you think? I’ll tell you what I think. If I were Harry, I would want to know why I am being told to go to the back of the line when I’m at the front of the line. I’m not sure how I would challenge the ticket agent, by saying, is it because I’m a senior, or what is it? Is it because of what? Why am I being told to go to the back of the line?

Donna Jodhan: This is what advocacy is all about. Harry is the one who needs to get involved in advocacy to start the ball rolling, because it affects Harry directly. Why is advocacy necessary? Because Harry wants to know why. Why is he being told to go to the back of a line? He’s a senior. Is it because he’s a senior? What the heck is it?

Donna Jodhan: How to get involved in advocacy? Well, Harry needs to do it. And if Harry can get help from those around him, it would help. But in this case, it is difficult because everybody wants to get their ticket. Nobody wants to hold up a line. But in this case, Harry needs to know what the heck is going on. And when does Harry get involved in advocacy? Now. Because this directly affects him.

Donna Jodhan: Okay. This is it for me for the month of August. Please send your feedback to me at Donna Jodhan, donnajodhan@gmail.com. Love to hear from you. Take care and we will see you next month. Bye for now.

Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA
Global Leader In Disability Rights, Digital Accessibility, And Inclusive Policy Reform
Turning policy into progress for people with disabilities.